Quick Introduction

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:12 am

Hello I'm Michael Moss and I live in Central Indiana just south of Indianapolis. I have 3 kids, and have been married for over 12 years.

While I am a Christian, there are things that are said and shown by the "community" if you will that I have some problems with. Not everything in the Bible is "literall" or Scientificially accurate (I have a very hard time believing people can live over 800 years lol)

I'm also a storm chaser and podcaster. So, Willing to talk at length about anything. I have been on the forums before, but it's been quite a while ago.

So Howdy Smile

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:50 pm

Welcome back Michael. I hope you enjoy your stay.

As a Christian, what is it in Christianity that you find literal and what is it that you find metaphor, and how do you discern the difference?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:09 am

Hello Reggie. Good to speak with yas again!

As for what I consider Metaforic And What is literal in the Bible, usually basic logic works for me. When I see something like people living 800-900 years old, I highly question if that can be literal. Whether or not the Gregorian Calendar is in use in this context, regardless that seems like quite a stretch.

Some things in the Bible sound like natural pheomonemon to me as well. Story about Moses parting the Red Sea while sounds incredible, it may have been the effect of a natural Tidal Surge/Tsumani or something like that. Same could be said about Noah's Ark (Sounds ALOT like a planet/satellite collision effects of some kind, or even an Asteroid/Comet impact)

As for claims such as the ones made by the likes of Kent Hovind (Fraud), that the Earth was formed in 6 literal 24 hr days and is 6,000 years old, I have never seen ANY evidence to prove that at all. Everything points to a much older Earth and no one knows for sure if a "day" has always been what we know it now to be. Being evolve over time to suit the environment they are in so it's no wonder that we also have common ancestors to our human race.

That's just a few thoughts I have at this time on the topic.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9832

Welcome.

If god is all powerful why wouldn't he be able to build the earth in 6 days and not over billions of years? And if that story is not literal why would a zygote manifesting into an eventual baby being born without two sets of DNA be literal?

I am glad you accept that the earth is billions of years old. If you can accept that, then you should be able to accept that it takes two sets of DNA to manifest into a zygote and then onto a baby.

If the bible is not a science textbook then it is unreliable to measure the scientific fact that the earth is billions of years old. If that is the case, and you accept that, then it shouldn't be a stretch that the birth of Jesus is just a story too.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:41 am

Brian:

Pleasure you meet yas Smile

You bring up some very good points.

In terms of what I assume you mean by the age of the Earth argument, to me personally if the Earth was formed in 6 days by God, we could go back and forth on what exactly a "day" means. Was the Bible translated with the Gregorian Calendar in mind, or was that what the original texts stated? It's a question I still ponder to this day and looking back in old calendars and all of the different ways we have used to measure time is a fascinating topic to me.

Of course some Christians would argue that he didn't even need 6 days to create the Earth and everything around it, or even one day (In our Gregorian Calendar sense of time) But it's fascinating to think about and talk about that is for sure.

As for taking Two Sets Of DNA to create a Zygote that eventually forming into a child, I would believe you are speaking that in reference to how could a Virgin Conception (As Mary With Jesus) would be possible? Again, another fascinating thing to ponder on.

I don't know how scientific this would be, or even if has been recorded in modern medicial times, but there are people who are both with both the human gametes in rare occasions. I've always wondered if a rare (But would be very high risk) Tubual Pregnancy could happen if both of those came together inside of a "woman" and pregnancy could occur (Even if the women is a Virgin) Don't know. Good question.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:48 am

Now of course keep this in mind as well, yes some of things I do believe in are totally by faith and not are of science. I have always said, that it's possible what I believe, the way I believe it could be wrong. I do realize that what I believe in faith from a scientific standpoint is a slim possiblity. But I have opened up myself (Much more than I did when I used to post on here several years ago) that Science has given me answers on alot more things in reality than it used to.

Not to mention, I learn things from all kinds of different people that think and believe differently than I do. I look at it as a continual chance to learn and grow together as I can't stand all of the labels and "cliches" that are dividing the human race too much. It's time those boundaries come down!

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9832

I am glad that you go further than most theists to admit your "faith" is arbitrary. That is the truth with humanity, and I think we'd have a lot more peace if gods and faith were treated like you are saying.

BUT, that still does not mean that because you have rightfully abandon the "my way or the highway" attitude, means that you are right. All it means is that you like what you believe.

"Faith" is merely a word to describe being satisfied with a gap answer merely because you like it.

Think about all the other claims of gods and other religions that you don't have "faith" in.

While it is true no human has "all the answers", it is a bad idea to cling to something merely because it makes you feel good. To confirm something, you must go beyond merely claiming it or liking it. You must be willing to subject it to testing and scrutiny and independent verification.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:19 am

Brian37:

You make a good point there as well. I have always pinned my faith with "This is a FAITH and I could totally be wrong about it" And even within Christian circles, there are so many things that are debated about (In other words, you can't be a Christian unless you are Baptist, or you have to believe in Eternal Security, yadda yadda) I have no interest in participating in those fruitless battles. I believe the way that I do and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No human living has all of the answers or knows the "Exact" way to "believe". In fact I would even argue that it would be different for each and every person (Some Christians would slam me for saying that, but I would back that up by saying "You guys will also say that God has a plan for each and every one of you, so why wouldn't the way each and every person believe why wouldn't that be different as well Wink

"

Now as for other faiths being wrong and right, if every person of faith took a good look at the faiths, they would see that they share things in common with their beliefs. I think if people of all faiths would come together on at the very least the things/values that they agree upon, it would help end alot of the wars and conflicts that we seem to wage against each other.

Now as for Confirming, well for that matter, the existance of God Scientifically, I would say that is impossible to do. Unless there is some way to do tests and experiments on the supernatural, I honestly don't see a way to do that with the being itself. Now what is written about that being, that is a different story.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9832

What does different "faiths" having things in common have to do with a magical being existing?

You are confusing morals humanity has in common as being the same as a magical invisible being existing. Of course humans have things in common. But to describe those commonalities we do not need to make up super heros or make up superstitions to state the obvious.

If we all have morals in common then it shouldn't matter what label you pick. If it doesn't matter what label you pick, then maybe the truth is in our evolution an not ancient fairy tales.

I can find morals in the bible, in Buddhism and Harry Potter and Star Wars. But the reality is that we don't need Buddha, or the Pope, or Luke Sky Walker, or a political party to say, "It is not nice to steel from your neighbor". That should be a No Duh without the superfluous fantasy.

My point is that you chose your faith, not because your god is real, but because you like the idea of having a super hero. Just like Muslims and Christians. And even Buddhists, who don't have a god, still have incantations and superstitions that are the same vacuous placebos as the standard god belief.

God claims are the same as Ouija boards, 4 leaf clovers and pantheism and are as valid as starting a "faith" based on a science fiction writer(Scientology). It all amounts to, "If it sounds good, it must be true". But all these "faiths" do is look for ways to justify their beliefs, they don't look to test them to be sure that what position they hold is correct.

Humans are capable of believing false things. Humans are capable of passionately believing these false things. We have tons of evidence of this flaw of human history where our species inserts a bad answer into the gap to placate their own emotions and egos.

I am quite sure that the ancient Egyptians and Romans believed as passionately in their myths as modern Buddhists, Christians, Jews and Scientologists do today.

What we don't have is evidence that Ouija boards work, or that a brain with no brain with super powers, by any name, floats out in the cosmos meddling in our affairs.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:59 am

I have posted a podcast where I have continued this discussion and also made some comments on the video that was posted of that "fake" healing at a church of a baby that was in a "coma":

http://www.mevio.com/view/?kId=208361&tId=2


Login/Register New account	Home · FAQ · News · Shows · Videos · Forums · Arcade · Listen & Chat · Book Store · Contact Us · Go Mobile