Nice to meet you.

Newbie Joined: Dec 01, 2009 Posts: 11

Hello.

I am a believer, I think, probably, maybe. I'm somewhat indecisive.

I grew up in a Christian family. It's a very Christian family. Been believers for generations. Lots of missionaries. I always thought I knew what I believed. I found Infidel Guy through a podcast a few months ago. I was a little surprised at how much I agreed with what I heard. I don't agree with everything, but quite a lot. I realized that I don't believe what I thought I did. So now I have to decide what it is that I do believe. I know I don't believe in the god that fundamentalists believe in. I don't like the god of the Old Testament. He seems really unforgiving. I don't want that god.

Right now I believe that there is a god, I'm just not sure what that god is. I know it's not logical to believe in a god, but I don't know how to not believe. I want to believe.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:06 pm

Welcome Taylor, I really appreciate your honesty. Very refreshing.

You are indeed in quite a cognitive pickle. Smile

Hmm.. wishing versus evidence? Isn't this all this boils down to?

Thinker Joined: Apr 13, 2009 Posts: 427 Location: Canada

Taylor,

Welcome.
You are certainly in the right forum, if you have questions. You will find some very knowledgeable, friendly and sage individuals here, who are pleased to answer your questions and offer their opinions and advice.

And then, there's a bunch of curmudgeonly SOBs such as myself. But we won't talk about them.

As an atheist, I find many of your statements to be quite telling. Let me quote them here to re-contextualize them for you.

Taylor7 wrote:

I don't want that god.

To me, this echos my understanding of gods and religion as a product of human construction. You don't want one god, so you create another – even though the new god is merely a modification of the old god. You are currently constructing your own god.
Btw, it has been postulated that this is how christianity began. (There's a few shows on this in the archives – check it out.)

Taylor7 wrote:

I want to believe.

You believe because you want to believe. Very, very true. But I am curious: why is that? Do you need to believe? This has confused me about religious people for a long time. Are you able to help me understand this impulse?

Taylor7 wrote:

I don't know how to not believe.

I think that you do. The people who have not stepped forward to ask these questions you ask of yourself, to analyze their beliefs, to investigate, to interpret, to THINK – those people are the ones who do not KNOW how to believe. You, on the other hand, sound healthier than that.

You are in good company.
Enjoy the forum. Ask questions. Provide your own arguments. Have fun.

Newbie Joined: Dec 01, 2009 Posts: 11

[quote="DigitalAtheist"]Taylor,

To me, this echos my understanding of gods and religion as a product of human construction. You don't want one god, so you create another – even though the new god is merely a modification of the old god. You are currently constructing your own god.
Btw, it has been postulated that this is how christianity began. (There's a few shows on this in the archives – check it out.)

I agree that God as he is understood by most people is a human construction. I really do think that people have created the box that they want God to fit in. That's probably why there is so much fighting about whose god is the right one. We all made different boxes for God, and everyone else's box is the wrong shape.

Taylor7 wrote:

I want to believe.

You believe because you want to believe. Very, very true. But I am curious: why is that? Do you need to believe? This has confused me about religious people for a long time. Are you able to help me understand this impulse?

I think I want to believe that there is more than me. A lot of the time life is rather unpleasant and I want there to be a reason. Also, I have always believed. Almost everyone I know believes and has always believed. It's my comfort zone. Stepping outside is scary.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:28 pm

hey taylor,

i am also new to this forum, maybe a bit too new to be welcoming anybody, but welcome anyways. Smile

although i'm new to the forum, i've been listening to the infidel guy show for about 3 years now, and i guarantee that if you start listening through the archives you'll start finding answers to a lot of your questions, and get an idea of what free thought is all about.

this forum is full of intelligent people that won't tell you what to think, but how to think in order to draw your own conclusions based on the most accurate data available to you. this is critical thinking .

it's about using logic and rationality to figure out truth, whether it be trying to figure out the origin of life, or seeing through pop culture and media driven misinformation, such as jenny mccarthy putting many people at risk of infection by exaggerating the risk of vaccines, and showing total disregard for reliable medical resources.

ten years ago, i was in the same situation as far as my religious beliefs...

Taylor7 wrote:

Hello.

I am a believer, I think, probably, maybe. I'm somewhat indecisive...I know I don't believe in the god that fundamentalists believe in. I don't like the god of the Old Testament. He seems really unforgiving. I don't want that god...Right now I believe that there is a god, I'm just not sure what that god is. I know it's not logical to believe in a god, but I don't know how to not believe... I want to believe.

it was quite a struggle for me, as i knew nobody who was an atheist, and the internet was still in its infancy. so i had to go it alone( lucky for you, you have this wonderful resource full of people who know what your going through), but through reading and daring to think outside the box, the more it seemed like god was just another fabrication of the mind.

yeah, its a little scary at first,(i half expected god to toss a couple of lightening bolts my way for doubting Laughing

) but after a while it just becomes a new way of thinking.

here's hoping you find the answer you seek, you've definitely come come to the right place.

Thinker Joined: Apr 13, 2009 Posts: 427 Location: Canada

Taylor7 wrote:

I agree that God as he is understood by most people is a human construction. I really do think that people have created the box that they want God to fit in. That's probably why there is so much fighting about whose god is the right one. We all made different boxes for God, and everyone else's box is the wrong shape.

Except that there is no box.

Taylor7 wrote:

I think I want to believe that there is more than me. A lot of the time life is rather unpleasant and I want there to be a reason. Also, I have always believed. Almost everyone I know believes and has always believed. It's my comfort zone. Stepping outside is scary.

You know, I could be a real jerk and ridicule your religion, but you really don't deserve it. To me it is obvious that you are thinking (or perhaps starting to ) and this puts you miles ahead of most of people, either religious or not – and I find that, my friend, to be a very refreshing quality.

I agree with ee. I think that you would really enjoy listening to the IG archives.
It is true that the host and the producers are not believers, but I think that you will find the shows to be balanced and fair. They feature guests and debaters from all walks of life: believers, non-believers, priests, scholars, average-joes, and even aliens from outer space (possibly). They are all, in my interpretation given a fair and adequate chance to voice their opinions and reasoning. Have fun, and ask questions in the forum. Then for some balance, go and ask the same questions in a christian forum. Then let us know what they say. Very Happy

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:05 pm

Welcome to the forums Taylor7 Very Happy

Taylor7 wrote:

I am a believer, I think, probably, maybe. I'm somewhat indecisive.

Good for you! Many say it's this indecision that leads to the "dark side", most of us might agree it leads to the light. Bask in it good sir Idea

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:07 am

I'd liketo join ~~emotive~~elusive-elf (** oops! Embarassed

) in welcoming Taylor, what a refreshing opening post. Take the blue pill kimosabi Smile

Stick with 'evidence based reality' - you end up with a wonderful sense of the sublime... and the ridiculous Wink

...of course, what some consider to be evidence.... hmmm Rolling Eyes

effusive-elf wrote:

yeah, its a little scary at first,(i half expected god to toss a couple of lightening bolts my way for doubting Laughing ) but after a while it just becomes a new way of thinking.

indeed, I concur... you keep looking over your shoulder... but what you say about a new way of thinking is true; you recalibrate the ol' perceptual filters...

** [I'm really sorry, I don't know why - I just love the idea of an elf on this forum!!]

Newbie Joined: Dec 01, 2009 Posts: 11

This isn't really a new way of thinking for me. My mother always taught us to ask questions about everything. I used to argue the other side of any discussion, whether I believed it or not, just because it was fun. This way of thinking has never led me in this direction before. I always questioned different beliefs in God, or different descriptions of God, but never that there was God. I'm trying to get used to the idea.

Digital Atheist; I can't explain why I want to believe other than what I already said. I really don't know why I want there to be something bigger. That's part of what I'm working on right now.

Thanks all for your comments. Keep me thinking.

Thinker Joined: Apr 13, 2009 Posts: 427 Location: Canada

Taylor7 wrote:

Digital Atheist; I can't explain why I want to believe other than what I already said. I really don't know why I want there to be something bigger. That's part of what I'm working on right now.

Interesting. Well, please let me know what your work turns up. I am interested.
My assumption has always been that the "want[ing] there to be something bigger [than reality]" is the true genesis of the idea of gods. This would leave us with this paradigm (greatest to least):

human thought
god
human
human thought

What a insidious moebius strip! Shocked

Anyway. Let me know what progress the pilgrim makes.

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:25 pm

DigitalAtheist wrote:

... ask questions in the forum. Then for some balance, go and ask the same questions in a christian forum. Then let us know what they say.

good point d.a., like a judge, who hears both sides of the case and decides who shows the best evidence for their claim. the dover case is a perfect example of how reason triumphed over unsupported claims and straw man arguments.

iPondR wrote:

I'm really sorry, I don't know why - I just love the idea of an elf on this forum!!

lol, trust me, the irony of a rational minded critical thinker using a mystical being as his screen name in a forum that is about dispelling belief in the supernatural, has not escaped me. Laughing

i just like how in some folklore, they were considered to be more beautiful, more skilled, more intelligent, and more agile than humans. basically i just like it as a metaphor for improvement on the human condition. plus i like fantasy fiction in addition to sci-fi.

i guess with christmas coming up i'll be hearing references to santa and helping him make the toys, huh? Laughing

Newbie Joined: Dec 01, 2009 Posts: 11

[quote="elusive_elfi just like how in some folklore, they were considered to be more beautiful, more skilled, more intelligent, and more agile than humans. [/quote]

In other folklore they are considered evil, manipulative and incredibly self centered. Terry Pratchett counts as folklore right? Very Happy

So far I'm finding the forums very thought provoking as well as entertaining. I'm glad I found this place.

Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Taylor7 wrote:

In other folklore they are considered evil, manipulative and incredibly self centered. Terry Pratchett counts as folklore right? Very Happy

i'm quite aware of the light elf/dark elf concept, so what's your point?

Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:47 pm

Quote:

the irony of a rational minded critical thinker using a mystical being as his screen name in a forum that is about dispelling belief in the supernatural, has not escaped me

Hey 'exclusive'_elf, yeah - I get the irony. Your appleseed pic suggests a kickass robotic elf anyway Wink

Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:44 pm

iPondR wrote:

Hey 'exclusive'_elf, yeah - I get the irony. Your appleseed pic suggests a kickass robotic elf anyway Wink

well, if one is to be an elf, why not boost the ultra with a little cybernetic enhancement? Very Happy


Login/Register New account	Home · FAQ · News · Shows · Videos · Forums · Arcade · Listen & Chat · Book Store · Contact Us · Go Mobile