Unions help their workers!

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:58 am

If by help you mean help them put the businesses they work for out of business and lose everyone money and jobs.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

Saitou wrote:

If by help you mean help them put the businesses they work for out of business and lose everyone money and jobs.

Why should they do that when the coporations are shipping many of those jobs overseas already?

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:51 am

Toyota cars sold in the US market are made in America by Americans.

Also, outsourcing has nothing to do with unions hampering a company's competitiveness. Other than unions forcing above market wages and compensation encouraging outsourcing.

Confident Learner Joined: Nov 13, 2004 Posts: 65

I don't see anything wrong with people banding to negotiate a contract.

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:07 am

Don't know about the US, but over here there are a lot of large unons that just seem to want more power for themselves. They've become just another group exploiting workers.

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:44 pm

sjc wrote:

Why should they do that when the coporations are shipping many of those jobs overseas already?

Why do you think a lot of corporations are shipping jobs overseas? They cannot compete when they have high wages and ridiculous compensation packages, mandated by the unions, hanging over their heads. I don't expect companies like Ford to be around all that much longer, they'll go bankrupt and we'll be left with non-union shops either shipping the work elsewhere.

Sure, unions do good, if you consider being out of work good.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:32 am

Can any one make a detailed case, for or against, with some historical examples to back it up?

I don't see organised labour as necessarily a magic bullet for good or ill.

That's kind of like saying that all a business needs to prosper is good management.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:17 am

I agree with cheap. Unions are not in and of themselves bad, and in cases like a labor monopsony or a third world country, they can be very helpful (to balance a labor market that's hardly free). There's a buyer-seller relationship between employers and employees, and I see nothing wrong with employees organizing, since an employer is certainly well-organized and committed to paying as little as it has to. People have to realize that unions are in a long declining trend in developed countries though.

As for Japanese cars, a lot of "Japanese" cars produced for the Japanese market are assembled in the U.S. too. There's pretty much no such thing as a "such-and-such country" car, as nowadays most of the components come from different places. Despite this, you won't find many Japanese people who buy Ford or GM cars. I see them every once in a while, but things are very different from the U.S. here. And Hyundais are unheard of. Never seen one (or a dealership) in the almost four years I've been in Japan. Import beer is also a little hard to find, though the bar I used to go to in Uozu had Miller on tap, and Nagano is a little better than Uozu was. My regular grocery store has Guinness, and one local convenience store carries Heineken. But Guinness and Heineken are pretty much givens in the U.S., whereas here, I was a little impressed.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:13 pm

There was a point in time where unions were a good thing because workers were being genuinely abused by big business, being put into dangerous situations, paid pennies and expected to work until they dropped. Today, that's not the case, all of those things are illegal and, to some degree, the unions of the 30s and 40s are responsible. But today, the unions are also corrupt businesses in their own right, seeking a ton of money for their own political purposes rather than actually trying to improve the lives of their members. They often have unrealistic expectations and that's getting their members fired as companies outsource to cheaper labor overseas.

I'd say most unions simply are not necessary, they extort money from people, are largely criminal organizations and don't do much to help the people they purport to help.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:51 pm

Off topic, but Hyundai made the news today, coincidentally. They had a marketing push in Japan with Bae Yongjoon (I believe that spelling is right), who's really popular here, but they're still only moving about 20 Sonatas a month, haha.

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:31 pm

Mostly for the same reason that European cars wouldn't sell in the US, even though I'd love to have them available. US cars are just too big for the Japanese market, just like European cars are just too small for the US market. Different populations, different road conditions, just different situations overall.

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:36 pm

Saw the topic and just had to stop by to spit upon the mention of labor unions .... *snooooorrrtt* /spit

-Noggin

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:41 pm

Noggin wrote:

Saw the topic and just had to stop by to spit upon the mention of labor unions .... *snooooorrrtt* /spit

-Noggin

Not an example of an argument.

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:10 pm

maop wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with people banding to negotiate a contract.

Not at all - so long as the terms won are freely agreed upon by both parties. However, in the case of unions, one party is given monopoly power by the state; the employer is not free to seek other labor.

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:15 pm

cheapsuprise wrote:

Can any one make a detailed case, for or against, with some historical examples to back it up?

I don't see organised labour as necessarily a magic bullet for good or ill.

That's kind of like saying that all a business needs to prosper is good management.

Labor unions - when granted monopoly power by the government - benefit their own members at the expense of non-members by restricting the available supply of labor and therefore driving up production costs. Ergo, the society as a whole is poorer.


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