Economic Stimulus Act a sham?

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Is it me or is there a cause for calling shananingans on this act? I mean can it really help the economics, would it cause even a sizable dent? It seems to me that this money would have better been spent paying of the nations insanely huge debt. what am I going to do with my hypothetical cash? Charity? Buy Reggie that his Dark Materials Trilogy he wanted for Solstice? Donations? Get my self something and does exactly what Burning Bush wants? so many possibilities... What do you think?

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:22 pm

I think its mostly bullshit. It'll be like putting a band-aid on something that needs stitches.

BUT, we have hundreds of dipshit politicians who want to look like they're doing something about it. Thats 99% of the reason why this stimulus package had bi-partisan support. Politicians suck.

I suppose there's one thing the stimulus package might do: allay our fears a bit. When people panic about things, the market suffers for it. Yeah, we're THAT pathetic.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:28 pm

It's Keynesian pump-priming. It never works.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:23 am

Aren't Bush and the rest hoping we'll all take our $600 - $1,200 check and go out and buy new shit? Almost everyone I know is going to use their extra dough to pay off existing debts.

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:27 am

The only way it's really going to help is if we spend it in the private sector... and I can see how it would help a little, but I don't know that it will really fix things. Personally, I am going to spend some of it on myself- I'll be in Iraq, and I'm probably going to get some books and uniforms with it- but I'm mostly going to be servicing my debts.

I guess the real question is, even if everyone DID spend it 100% on new stuff- would it help? Personally, I think it would, a little, and they're hoping that the newfound confidence will help the market come back from the recession. So it seems like a slim hope on top of a possibility. Probably not gonna do much.

Time will tell. I didn't think the troop surge would work either.

Newbie Joined: Feb 04, 2008 Posts: 23

Raligan wrote:

The only way it's really going to help is if we spend it in the private sector... and I can see how it would help a little, but I don't know that it will really fix things. Personally, I am going to spend some of it on myself- I'll be in Iraq, and I'm probably going to get some books and uniforms with it- but I'm mostly going to be servicing my debts.

I guess the real question is, even if everyone DID spend it 100% on new stuff- would it help? Personally, I think it would, a little, and they're hoping that the newfound confidence will help the market come back from the recession. So it seems like a slim hope on top of a possibility. Probably not gonna do much.

Time will tell. I didn't think the troop surge would work either.

Can I recommend for you the book "Economics in One Lesson"? It explains the underlying fallacy behind Bush's plan.

Oh, and the troop surge hasn't "worked". There has been a general cease-fire called by al Sadr since a month or two before the "surge". That is why there is less killing.

Newbie Joined: Feb 04, 2008 Posts: 23

McDuffie_for_Congress wrote:

Raligan wrote:

The only way it's really going to help is if we spend it in the private sector... and I can see how it would help a little, but I don't know that it will really fix things. Personally, I am going to spend some of it on myself- I'll be in Iraq, and I'm probably going to get some books and uniforms with it- but I'm mostly going to be servicing my debts.

I guess the real question is, even if everyone DID spend it 100% on new stuff- would it help? Personally, I think it would, a little, and they're hoping that the newfound confidence will help the market come back from the recession. So it seems like a slim hope on top of a possibility. Probably not gonna do much.

Time will tell. I didn't think the troop surge would work either.

Can I recommend for you the book "Economics in One Lesson"? It explains the underlying fallacy behind Bush's plan.

Oh, and the troop surge hasn't "worked". There has been a general cease-fire called by al Sadr since a month or two before the "surge". That is why there is less killing.

I second guessed myself and looked it up: the surge started a few months before the general cease fire, however, it was the cease fire, and not hte surge that has caused the decrease in violence.

Newbie Joined: Feb 04, 2008 Posts: 23

Knight_of_BAAWA wrote:

It's Keynesian pump-priming. It never works.

Knight: did you know that Sean no longer considers himself a market anarchist? He is moving towards the Chicago school.

I have been calling him a socialist.

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:03 am

McDuffie_for_Congress wrote:

Raligan wrote:

The only way it's really going to help is if we spend it in the private sector... and I can see how it would help a little, but I don't know that it will really fix things. Personally, I am going to spend some of it on myself- I'll be in Iraq, and I'm probably going to get some books and uniforms with it- but I'm mostly going to be servicing my debts.

I guess the real question is, even if everyone DID spend it 100% on new stuff- would it help? Personally, I think it would, a little, and they're hoping that the newfound confidence will help the market come back from the recession. So it seems like a slim hope on top of a possibility. Probably not gonna do much.

Time will tell. I didn't think the troop surge would work either.

Can I recommend for you the book "Economics in One Lesson"? It explains the underlying fallacy behind Bush's plan.

Oh, and the troop surge hasn't "worked". There has been a general cease-fire called by al Sadr since a month or two before the "surge". That is why there is less killing.

I second guessed myself and looked it up: the surge started a few months before the general cease fire, however, it was the cease fire, and not hte surge that has caused the decrease in violence.

Probably- I'm about as anti-Bush as any liberal, so it's easy for me to believe this one- but at the same time I don't want to throw out everything he does just because I can't stomach the man. So I went back to my source- and it certainly looks like you're right- http://icasualties.org/oif/ . The surge was started in Feb, the cease fire started in May- and if you look at the table on the linked page, you can see that the deaths increased through June, then began to drop. So, it looks like the first time I agree with Bush's policy turns out I've been done in by media spin.
Thanks for pointing that out.

OTOH, though, congress came up with the stimulus package, so there's a slim chance that it might not be retarded monkey fodder after all.
Is this the book?
http://jim.com/econ/chap01p1.html

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:35 am

Knight_of_BAAWA wrote:

It's Keynesian pump-priming. It never works.

McDuffie_for_Congress wrote:

Knight: did you know that Sean no longer considers himself a market anarchist? He is moving towards the Chicago school.

Didn't know that, but then I haven't been to yahoo chat in a long time.

McDuffie_for_Congress wrote:

I have been calling him a socialist.

Call him a dirty solipsist for me.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:18 am

jkorath wrote:

Aren't Bush and the rest hoping we'll all take our $600 - $1,200 check and go out and buy new shit? Almost everyone I know is going to use their extra dough to pay off existing debts.

I'm putting all of it right in the bank. That way I'll still have it when they ask for it back next year, just like they did with the Bush "tax cut."

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:04 am

McDuffie_for_Congress wrote:

Knight: did you know that Sean no longer considers himself a market anarchist? He is moving towards the Chicago school.
.

That's a step in the right direction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_(economics)

I'm reading Thomas Sowell's new book on my Amazon Kindle right now.

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:07 am

Also: Troop surge has worked (not that everything is great).
Economic Stimulus is bullshit of the vote buying by politicians variety.
Still, people are taxed much too much so it is nice that some of them will get some money back.

Graduate Thinker Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 519

What does anyone think about Fair Tax? I think it wuold be more effective than what we have right now.

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:17 pm

We'd need a constitutional amendment banning other forms of taxation before we could implement the Fair Tax. Otherwise the government will just turn it into another revenue stream.

Taxing consumption makes a hell of a lot more sense! Taxing income is just plain ugly. All the money is treated like pure profit when you had to trade so much time and skill (at least for some) to make it. If you're rich but have little in the way of income you're taxed less.

Even though a far right winger buy the standards of most of the people on this forum I can stomach wealthier people paying more however I don't think the progressive tax rates is a good idea since it discourages a lot of behavior that is good.

Also, every adult should pay a minimum amount of tax every year. I can stomach a "small hand" up even though I find wealth transfer immoral even when the government does it. Giving money to losers and leaches I don't like at all. Everyone should contribute or not expect anything from others.


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