Help me make sense of this

Newbie Joined: Oct 23, 2007 Posts: 10

Help me understand. Christians believe Jesus was a good person right. But God was mad at humans and wanted someone to be tortured to death to make him feel better about our sins so he chose to have his own son (who is actually also himself while at the same time being his own son?)

And God is moral but he thinks torturing and killing people like Jesus is ok and in fact so amazing that he forgives all of our sins because of how awesome that was?

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:14 am

Juno22 wrote:

Help me understand. Christians believe Jesus was a good person right. But God was mad at humans and wanted someone to be tortured to death to make him feel better about our sins so he chose to have his own son (who is actually also himself while at the same time being his own son?)

And God is moral but he thinks torturing and killing people like Jesus is ok and in fact so amazing that he forgives all of our sins because of how awesome that was?

This is really odd and gruesome (from a modern perspective) religious myth. During the time however, blood sacrifice was an important part of many cultural rituals. The blood sacrifice of Jesus stems from those rituals and is even continued today in ceremonies like the Eucharist, where people believe they figuratively or actually consume the body and blood of Jesus.

It’s interesting how Christianity twists the fictionalized malevolent act(s) of their god into something they believe is good.

Quote:

Help me make sense of this

Try as you may, I find it doubtful you'll be able to make sense of it on any rational level.

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:57 pm

Jesus crucified, PRESTO CHANGEO, sins of humanity forgiven. Pure fiction.

Thinker Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 437

If god did that to his son, imagine what he'd do to somebody who really pissed him off.

Of course, if you want to pin the blame for Jesus' death on the Jews, perhaps we should consider worshipping the Jews. You probably shouldn't fuck with a people who can kill the son of a god.

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:37 am

advancedatheist wrote:

Of course, if you want to pin the blame for Jesus' death on the Jews, perhaps we should consider worshipping the Jews. You probably shouldn't fuck with a people who can kill the son of a god.

Yeah! Don't fuck with us!

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:48 am

Juno22 wrote:

Help me understand. Christians believe Jesus was a good person right. But God was mad at humans and wanted someone to be tortured to death to make him feel better about our sins so he chose to have his own son (who is actually also himself while at the same time being his own son?)

And God is moral but he thinks torturing and killing people like Jesus is ok and in fact so amazing that he forgives all of our sins because of how awesome that was?

This is and has always been a problem for Christians to reconcile. How can the kind and loving god have decided that torture was the best method of alleviating human sins?

But there is even a bigger and more threatening question.

On one hand we are dealing with a god who is allegedly omnipotent - he has the power to do anything. After all, he created the world and the rules that govern it.

But on the other hand, we have a god who decided that the ONLY way he could alleviate human suffering (so god DID make a mistake!) was to torture his son. That was the only way. It couldn't have been alleviated any other way.

Ummm...

I thought that God was capable of doing anything. If he created the rules, he can change them. (If not, he is not all powerful and there must be something more powerful than he.) So, if God can change the rules, then why couldn't he snap his fingers and alleviate human sin? Why did he HAVE to kill Jesus to alleviate human sin? (As if there was some rule book taht said tthat this was the only way, and God was powerless to rewrite that rule book.)

So, either God is not all powerful and could not simply snap his fingers to alleviate sin, or God is all powerful and could have simply undone our sins. Either way, Christians lose.

Of course, to the atheist, all this is a bunch of wasteful speculation anyway, becasue the way I see it, the Jesus story was made up after the fact to canonize a man who convinced several people that he had ties to the old testament. That is, the Jesus story is a post-hoc rationalization to explain what some people were duped into thinking was the messiah.

But maybe I just haven't prayed hard enough.

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:46 pm

Quote:

Help me understand. Christians believe Jesus was a good person right. But God was mad at humans and wanted someone to be tortured to death to make him feel better about our sins so he chose to have his own son (who is actually also himself while at the same time being his own son?)

And God is moral but he thinks torturing and killing people like Jesus is ok and in fact so amazing that he forgives all of our sins because of how awesome that was?

Well...IMO, its nothing to understand if you have common-sense. Yes, Christians believe Jesus was perfect. You understood it correct, God was mad at humans for sinning so he sent himself down to be tortured -then sacraficed- to himself- so he could forgive his own creations for doing things he knew they were gonna do before he created them...., in the end God is just fighting with himself. It should'nt be hard for a person of logic and sense to figure out the whole story is bullshit and was written by guys on extacy.

And actually, lets think about a couple of things. God is omniscient; he knows past, present, and future. Before God went into human form to be sacraficed for the atonement of human sin, he knew absolutely what his fate was going to be before he even went to it. Well now, I heard "suicide" was a sin last time I heard. Now when you think about what actually happened to Jesus(God), ...basically he committed suicide. He purposely sent himself to die, and knew absolutely that he was gonna die, yet still allowed himself to be killed. As someone brought up,...if God is omniscient and so all knowing.....smart and all those good things, couldn't he have thought of a better way to atone for sin?

Wait....it's not that hard, I have an easy way. Idea

Quote:

"Yeah, humans you fucked up and sinned, I knew you would!!! Wink

lol But don't worry, ...I forgive you."

END OF STORY. I mean God, it was that simple; nothing complex. But the whole story just goes to show you the mindset of the people who actually wrote the bible, they believed when something bad or "evil" was done you couldn't just forgive and forget or let it go, oh no they believed something needed to be sacraficed to "make things right". Yeah,...total primitivity. Just like in the Middle East til' this day, in certain places when they catch someone stealing, they cut or chop off they're arm; they make them sacrafice an arm if you will. Hell, I've even got video of that type of stuff happening; pretty brutal. And it all sparks from religious belief.


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