"Respect me and my beliefs!"

Confident Learner Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 99

I have two sisters, and my family is very close. I speak with my sisters constantly, and we all stay in contact with our parents. Whenever I am speaking out against christianity in their presence, I am told that I am disrespecting them and their beliefs. In many instances, merely making a statement that vaguely refers to religiousity is enough to provoke them.

Now, I totally respect my sisters because, well, they are my sisters. Disrespect for religion and religious-born ideologies does not equal disrespect of the person. Yet they seem to suggest that if I say that christianity destroyed civilisation and we are still trying to recover, that is not the same thing as making a direct attack on someone's person!

This is where the argument rages. Why don't I have respect for religious beliefs and values that other people hold to? Just because I don't believe them, supposedly I am to respect that fact that other people do and remain silent about them.

Ok, that won't work. The religious around me rarely remain silent on any issue, and constantly invoke their god as a means of settlement on them. Thus, it becomes a matter of necessity that I make my position very clear! Furthermore, I have no respect for a religion that is continually forced upon me.

It's like this. I am told that I can be an atheist just so long as I don't "flaunt" my atheism. Do christians have to uphold that same standard? Not from what I've seen. It basically boils down to, it's ok to be an atheist just so long as you act like a christian.

I don't support christian dogma, don't believe in christian values and morality systems, and directly oppose christian views on practically every issue. Why would I want to act as though the reverse was true? Not going to happen. If christians can publically proclaim their christianity, constantly directing religious statements at me, I can do likewise.

Christians have stomped all over the Constitutional Bill of Rights, so it seems totally appropriate to me that I should stomp all over the christian holy book. Total disrespect intended.

Confident Learner Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 67

Because religion is based on emotion. It's like insulting someone for crying at a funeral to them.

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:52 am

Quote:

Disrespect for religion and religious-born ideologies does not equal disrespect of the person.

Unfortunately, the religious can’t separate the ideologies from themselves. They simply can’t step away from their beliefs and examine them without a personalized emotional response. So as strange as it sounds, when you disrespect their beliefs you’re disrespecting them.

Perhaps the best approach is respectful dissent.

Quote:

Christians have stomped all over the Constitutional Bill of Rights, so it seems totally appropriate to me that I should stomp all over the christian holy book.

Do you really hold the Bill of Rights in such regard that disrespecting it would cause you emotional harm?

Confident Learner Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 99

Well, I don't actually have a document that I consider holy or anything. However, since our right are guaranteed in order to protect the citizent from the tyranny of the government, I do think that the Bill of Rights has a much more profound effect on my life than the christian holy book has on theirs. Therefore, emotional attachment is unnecessary.

Confident Learner Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 67

Dissident1 wrote:

Well, I don't actually have a document that I consider holy or anything. However, since our right are guaranteed in order to protect the citizent from the tyranny of the government, I do think that the Bill of Rights has a much more profound effect on my life than the christian holy book has on theirs. Therefore, emotional attachment is unnecessary.

Is this about abortion?

Because seriously, I don't care either way about abortion.

The only rights that mildly bother me that have been taken away from me are my rights to harm myself without harming anyone else, and the government still can't stop me from doing that either.

This government is pretty easy going imo, the people are the ones who hate atheism.

Confident Learner Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 99

No this is not about abortion! At least, not specifically.

You might be surprised how many of your rights are being legislated into "privileges" and then revoked in that manner. With terms such as "for your protection" or "to protect our children", all mantras developed and promoted by the extreme religious factions of our society.

Just Arrived Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 6

Dissident1 wrote:

Yet they seem to suggest that if I say that christianity destroyed civilisation and we are still trying to recover, that is not the same thing as making a direct attack on someone's person!

How convenient for them. How perfect. How typical. How predictable. They have an answer for every one of their hypocrisies, right down to love the sinner (you) - hate the sin (atheism). Your sisters are patronizing you. They tolerate your point of view as a courtesy while quietly praying for your soul with every atheistic word you send in one ear and out the other. Religion has turned your free-thinking (at birth) siblings into parroting zealot zombies.

Love your sisters - hate their religion.

FLH

The Learned Joined: Nov 30, 2004 Posts: 120

MockingGods wrote:

Unfortunately, the religious can’t separate the ideologies from themselves. They simply can’t step away from their beliefs and examine them without a personalized emotional response. So as strange as it sounds, when you disrespect their beliefs you’re disrespecting them.

Yea but that's common to the less educated as well. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people whine on a message board when they can't reinforce an argument. The most common revenge tactic they take is to whine to the moderator that someone's "tone" was disrespectful. However I have found a common trend though by tracking those people's posts they turn out to be fundy's. So this inability to separate ideologies from themselves spills into any subject; it becomes a type of behavior. I've seen it on religious boards, gaming boards, tech boards, and my college online classroom message boards. I recall the people who whined in Critical Thinking class and constantly disagreed with fallacies were also fundy's. - It's like a disease. Seriously. I was the same way for the longest time even, it was only after enough people (and events) kept pointing out the same obvious problems with religion that I finally looked into their claims with the same intensity I had applied to developing theology that I found holes all over the place.

Dissident1, your family is using the typical christian tactic of emotional appeals to faith. In this case likely what's happening is the same thing that happens to me - they initiate the conversation about religion or spiritual matters, you give your two cents, then they claim your two cents is disrespectful. Rather than re-inforce their own argument by studying their theology they are censoring you and hoping you'll cave to their ways so they can feel better and not have to exercise their brains.

To quote from the gospels: "Don't cast your pearls before swine." - Don't give out your hard worked and studied knowledge so freely. Make them earn your opinion and knowlege by asking them beforehand if they really want your two cents with the caveat that the "disrespectful" answer you will not put up with. That will piss them off at first I guarantee it but so does finally enforcing bed-time and standing in the corner cool down time on children but over time it finally pays off. After all lawyers and doctors don't give their advise and opinions out freely; it must be paid for or earned through respect. Demand no less is my two copper. Smile

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:07 am

Dissident1 wrote:

I have two sisters, and my family is very close. I speak with my sisters constantly, and we all stay in contact with our parents. Whenever I am speaking out against christianity in their presence, I am told that I am disrespecting them and their beliefs. In many instances, merely making a statement that vaguely refers to religiousity is enough to provoke them.

Now, I totally respect my sisters because, well, they are my sisters. Disrespect for religion and religious-born ideologies does not equal disrespect of the person. Yet they seem to suggest that if I say that christianity destroyed civilisation and we are still trying to recover, that is not the same thing as making a direct attack on someone's person!

This is where the argument rages. Why don't I have respect for religious beliefs and values that other people hold to? Just because I don't believe them, supposedly I am to respect that fact that other people do and remain silent about them.

Ok, that won't work. The religious around me rarely remain silent on any issue, and constantly invoke their god as a means of settlement on them. Thus, it becomes a matter of necessity that I make my position very clear! Furthermore, I have no respect for a religion that is continually forced upon me.

It's like this. I am told that I can be an atheist just so long as I don't "flaunt" my atheism. Do christians have to uphold that same standard? Not from what I've seen. It basically boils down to, it's ok to be an atheist just so long as you act like a christian.

I don't support christian dogma, don't believe in christian values and morality systems, and directly oppose christian views on practically every issue. Why would I want to act as though the reverse was true? Not going to happen. If christians can publically proclaim their christianity, constantly directing religious statements at me, I can do likewise.

Christians have stomped all over the Constitutional Bill of Rights, so it seems totally appropriate to me that I should stomp all over the christian holy book. Total disrespect intended.

Your sisters do not fit into a standard what do I do.

Anybody who brings religion up as a solution to something has to expect that there might be somebody who differs and will counter them. Be it another religion or an atheist or even a member of the same religion who doesn't agree with that point.

So I suggest you calmly get that point through to your sisters letting them know that it isn't personal. If that doesn't work where you can each contribute, then I suggest the usual compromise which is keep religion out of the topics and you'll live happily ever after.

You can be right as rain about what you believe but if you have great relationships with your sisters and vice versa then silence from all might be the best solution.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9384

One can like or even love a person and still not like or love everything that comes out of their mouth. That is a given in any relationship on any topic. They are ignorant if they cannot seperate the issue of deity claims from you loving them as syblings. They are completely seperate issues.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:08 am

Dissident1 wrote:

Christians have stomped all over the Constitutional Bill of Rights, so it seems totally appropriate to me that I should stomp all over the christian holy book. Total disrespect intended.

So are you taking it out on your sisters what somebody else has done? Or are you saying that they constantly bring up religion at you and expect you to be quiet?

You really need to describe your situation better. Your sisters have now been called parroting zealot zombies among other names. I missed that in your description. Is that what they are like?

Newbie Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 18 Location: 29681

If you just want to express your opinion, you shouldn't have a problem with them not being able to respond.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9384

raky wrote:

If you just want to express your opinion, you shouldn't have a problem with them not being able to respond.

If I ask you, "1+1=what" and you dont respond what does that say about your knowlege?

No, they dont have to respond to me and I dont have to change my position when someone doesnt respond with a credible answer. So while they dont have to respond, I do have a problem with people making naked assertions without backing it up with credible evidence.

Newbie Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 18 Location: 29681

someone should make a little summary sheet of all the other religions that are just like christianity. like have all the gods and traits listed.

i thought about it because there are some little summary sheets for linux command-line commands.

its really hard for people to dump all of their knowledge into a somewhat random conversation like many of us atheists have with 'Believers'. a 'cheat sheet' would be really useful, as would a website....

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:31 pm

George Carlin is right when he argues that we need to add one more to the 10 commandments:

11. Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

When a religious person keeps talking about their religion around people who don't believe in that religion its rude and impolite. Unless I'm around nonreligious friends or am asked about my beliefs I don't say a word about atheism or being an atheist. They should have the decency to return the favor.

Uh-oh, but their religion commands them to never shut up about it Rolling Eyes


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