A new spin on "all poerful and all knowing"

Forum Master Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 10152

We've all heard "Can god create a rock so big even he couldn't lift it"

If he can, he is not powerful enough to lift it, thus not all powerful. If he cant create a rock so big he cant lift it, he cannot be all powerful.

NOW another spin in the rightful motif that shows the absurdity of all omni claims of gods.

If god is all powerful, then he must have the ability to learn. But if he knows everything then there is nothing to learn.

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:03 am

God cannot change his mind, for he already knew before he changed it.

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:05 am

That's what gets me about Genesis, if the dumb ass is omniscient, how can he REGRET creating man? Yet ha has to destroy them using natural means when he could have just snapped his fingers and started over, then he has to create a rainbow to remind his dumb ass never to do it again!

What an incompetent loser!

The Learned Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 138

a believer would just respond by saying you guys r just giving God human atributes and a human mind.

Forum Master Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 10152

Quite the opposite as we well know. People make up god/s and give them human attributes. No different than when humans thought volcanos were gods.

The Learned Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 138

Brian37 wrote:

We've all heard "Can god create a rock so big even he couldn't lift it"

If he can, he is not powerful enough to lift it, thus not all powerful. If he cant create a rock so big he cant lift it, he cannot be all powerful.

NOW another spin in the rightful motif that shows the absurdity of all omni claims of gods.

If god is all powerful, then he must have the ability to learn. But if he knows everything then there is nothing to learn.

what is your take on this article about God's rock creating ability

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/rock.html

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:52 pm

The above linked article wrote:

The topic of omnipotence (the ability of God to do anything, i.e., God is all-powerful) is frequently cited by atheists as proof that the God of the Bible cannot exist.

Many atheists (myself included) will say that omnipotence is self-contradictory and is impossible given other supposed attributes of the Christian god. I would also go as far as saying omnipotence itself is almost certainly impossible, as in the "rock" example.

These are the three main attributes most Christians say their god possesses.

Omnipotent (can do anything)
Omnibenevolent (all loving)
Omniscient (all knowing)

Let's attempt to look at this logically, although logic is hard to apply to god concepts.

Evil (bad things) exists in reality. If this is true, then the god is either unwilling to prevent it (not Omnibenevolent) or unable to prevent it ( not Omnipotent). A Christian might say at this point that there can't be good without evil, or we can't learn without evil. But aren't they just saying their god is incapable (not omnipotent(limited)) of creating good without evil. Either way, the two attributes seem to contradict with our reality.

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:00 pm

Again, the article wrote:

The word "omnipotent" is never used in the Bible, but has been inferred primarily by one of God's Hebrew titles, "Shadday," which is most often translated "almighty."1 However, the Bible never claims that God can do all things. In fact, the Bible makes a point that there are things that God cannot do. The Bible says that God cannot commit sin.2 God cannot lie.3 Therefore, biblical omnipotence does not mean that God can do all things. God cannot do anything that is contrary to His holy character. However, God can do anything that He determines to do. This is a true meaning of omnipotence - the ability to do anything that one sets out to do.

If the god cannot do anything contrary to its nature, how can it have, "the ability to do anything that one sets out to do". They don't even understand how obviously contradictory this statement is. I'm fine with them limiting their god, but they really need to stop saying it's "omnipotent".

Quote:

This is a true meaning of omnipotence - the ability to do anything that one sets out to do.

Then obviously their god is unwilling to create a reality without evil.

The Learned Joined: May 11, 2010 Posts: 138

MockingGods wrote:

Again, the article wrote:

The word "omnipotent" is never used in the Bible, but has been inferred primarily by one of God's Hebrew titles, "Shadday," which is most often translated "almighty."1 However, the Bible never claims that God can do all things. In fact, the Bible makes a point that there are things that God cannot do. The Bible says that God cannot commit sin.2 God cannot lie.3 Therefore, biblical omnipotence does not mean that God can do all things. God cannot do anything that is contrary to His holy character. However, God can do anything that He determines to do. This is a true meaning of omnipotence - the ability to do anything that one sets out to do.

If the god cannot do anything contrary to its nature, how can it have, "the ability to do anything that one sets out to do". They don't even understand how obviously contradictory this statement is. I'm fine with them limiting their god, but they really need to stop saying it's "omnipotent".

Quote:

This is a true meaning of omnipotence - the ability to do anything that one sets out to do.

Then obviously their god is unwilling to create a reality without evil.

i hear you bro, but it is a very interesting site. but as far as christian apologetics go I have heard better.

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:35 am

daredevil wrote:

i hear you bro, but it is a very interesting site. but as far as christian apologetics go I have heard better.

I've actually never been impressed with Christian apologetics... perplexed at times, but not impressed.

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:58 pm

Quote:

That's what gets me about Genesis, if the dumb ass is omniscient, how can he REGRET creating man? Yet ha has to destroy them using natural means when he could have just snapped his fingers and started over, then he has to create a rainbow to remind his dumb ass never to do it again!

What an incompetent loser!

I really think that the Hebrews didn't think of their God in the same way that Christians do. Their culture, ethics, morals, and attitudes were different than ours today, and Christians usually forget that. Each nation had its own collection of gods, and each nation thought theirs was the best and the most badass, but those gods didn't care about the people of other nations, or have power to hurt them. That is why we see Yahweh showing favoritism to the Hebrews while hating the Midianites, Gergasites, Jebusites, Parasites, Whateversites, etc. Yahweh didn't have power over those nations, he just ignored them, or else gave the Hebrews enough power to conquer them so that THEY could have power over them.

Quote:

a believer would just respond by saying you guys r just giving God human atributes and a human mind.

They do say such things, but then THEY give God human attributes such as love, anger, jealousy, compassion, kindness, etc. Plus, the Bible describes him as having hands, feet, head, eyes, mouth, nose, arms, legs, and even a backside! It is obvious that God is nothing more than a sky-man with magical powers, a great cosmic Gandalf. But they always have an answer for why God never demonstrates his amazing magic powers.

Skeptic: Can God make a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it?
Christian: GOD DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!


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