Syriac Christianity as a source

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:22 am

There have been some researches within the last 30-50 years which take seriously the idea that Northern Syriac Christianity (ie. around the Haran, Edessa region in modern Turkey) played a dominant role in the formation of the Qur'an and Islamic doctrines. Alphonse Mingana (from the 1920s) took this very seriously as did Arthur Jeffrey (see book "Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an") in the 1930s. This research came to a great halt in the 1940s due to WW2 when some had to go off to war, and some documents were destroyed or lost such as in Germany and France, also Egypt.

Re-interest was kindled in the 1980s after John Wansbrough and his pupils Patricia Crone and Michael Cook came on the scene in 1977 each with a book: Wansbrough's "Quranic Studies" and Crone and Cook's "Hagarism". C&C took seriously and used exclusively the Syriac and non-Arabic sources (such as Greek and Latin), and constructed a whole new paradigm for Islamic origins. This took some flak from both Muslims and non-Muslim academics. (No one wants to rethink something that they have a soft mold already formed for.)

The master researcher Sebastian Brock analysed just about every facet of Syriac Christianity from 100AD-700AD, and his articles have been recently republished in the Ashgate Variorum Reprints series in 4 vols. Also his books on Syriac theology, Ephraim the Syrian, and his translations of Ephraim's "Hymns on Paradise" have been cheaply priced, so even the public can buy them from Amazon.com or .ca.

There is also a conference that just took place over last weekend at Notre Dame in the USA. In a few years the essays will be published, but in the meantime, the previous conference's essays were published last year and I'm currently reading them. You can read my Syriac thread at FFI here and in the 2nd post read the abstracts to the conference papers.

As more becomes available I'll put info there.

Just Arrived Joined: Aug 17, 2009 Posts: 3

Have you read Luxembourg's work?

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:36 am

I was able to read a large portion of the book online, and it seems that his arguments match Mingana and Gabriel Sawma. Many scholars take issue with him because it upsets their delicate balance of Islamic scholarship and forces them to restart critical thinking. Joseph Schaht said in the 1950s: "Doing Islamic scholarship instead of scholarship on Islam."

I have also posted recently some recent info on the huris=grapes thesis. See here .

Intern Joined: Feb 19, 2003 Posts: 279 Location: USA

What is the thesis ?

Newbie First Class Joined: Dec 31, 2009 Posts: 35

SWEET LITTLE JESUS BOY
THEY MADE YOU BE BORN IN A MANGER
SWEET LITTLE HOLY CHILD
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO YOU WERE
WE DIDN'T KNOW YOU'D COME TO SAVE US LORD
TO TAKE OUR SINS AWAY
OUR EYES WERE BLIND,
WE COULD NOT SEE
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO YOU WERE
LONG TIME AGO,
YOU WERE BORN
BORN IN A MANGER LOW
SWEET LITTLE JESUS BOY
AND THE WORLD TREAT YOU MEAN
TREAT ME MEAN TOO
BUT THAT'S HOW THINGS IS DOWN HERE
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO U WAS
YOU DONE TOLD US HOW
WE IS A-TRYING
MASTER, YOU DONE SHOWED US HOW
EVEN WHEN YOU WAS DYING
JUST SEEMS LIKE WE CAN'T DO RIGHT
LOOK HOW WE TREATED YOU
BUT PLEASE,
SIR,
FORGIVE US LORD
WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS YOU
SWEET LITTLE JESUS BOY
THEY MADE YOU BE BORN IN A MANGER
SWEET LITTLE HOLY CHILD
WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO YOU WERE

Confident Learner Joined: Sep 02, 2010 Posts: 67

I think I have a hypothesis on how Islam was formed, and the origins of it. Excuse the lack of good grammar

Lets see.

God loved the world so he sent his only begotten son to us.

God decided to separate a part of him and send him to earth through a virgin birth, Merry.

Now he grew up and when it was time to preach, Humans took offend of what he said because it didn't make sense to them at the time.(to be honest it still doesn't, but any way)

so the people then tortured him and crucified him. For what he had said.

When Jesus got back to his daddy he was very angry and rightly so.

He said: Dad, Dad, Did you see what those bastards did to me, they tortured me dad, and they crucified me, for what? I told them things that were good and made sense.

God said: the jury is still out on that one son. And plus you did some pushing around yourself, I mean do you remember what you did in the temple and what you did to the fig tree, and some the things you said. Lets face it, you had it coming.

Jesus said: OK I might have said some things and lost my temper, that doesn't give them the right to torture and crucify me. And...and... You didn't even do anything to stop them!!.

God said: well you know I don't get involved son, I've watched them do worse things to each other, but your right your my son, I should have stepped in. Let me make it up to you, I promise I'll grant you it.

Jesus thought for a while, (I'm going to get these bastards for what they did to me.) and said: I want to write the next religion.

God said: That's my job son, no

Jesus begged: Plz, plz dad. plz plz plz plz plz plz plz
God:said Ok, Ok, your given me a headache.

And so Jesus thought a lot, and promised him self that he would make life as hard as possible for those human bastards. It took him 600 years to come up with a religion then he chose Mohammed.

Mohammed, I have chosen you as a prophet. Jesus said. And over the next 23 years, I shall give it to you. (not in a pornographic way)

Jesus, over that span of time gave it to Mohammed.

And the laws are:

No music, its haram (Jesus thought enjoy that you bastards)

NO wine, its haram. Mohammed said but your first miracle was making wine? Jesus said: Don't question me Mohammed, what I say you take it. Tell them its a lie, I never did that.

NO dancing, its haram.

Tell them that they have to pray 7 days a week, its no longer this one day a week shit. And they have to pray 5 times a day.

So Muhammed said: OK, got it! 7 days a week, 5 times a day. Jesus said: but Waite they cant just pray when they like during the day, I have specific times.

The 1st prayer is at Dawn, just before sunset. Muhammed said: but, that's when people enjoy their sleep. Jesus said: that's my point exactly,

now 2nd prayer is at noon,Jesus said.
Muhammed said: but, that's when their working, it inconvenient for them. Jesus said: read my lips, I, Don't, Care, they have to do it. Now 3rd prayer, its in the after noon around 4 pm.

Muhammed said: but, that's when they get home from work and are tired, and need a shower, and eat something. Jesus said: they can do that after they perform their prayer, now the 4th prayer is just after sunset.
Muhammed said: but, that's when people plan to go out and visit friends. Jesus said: tell them to stay home, its far more important, and the last, but not least, 5th prayer is, late at night,

Muhammed said: but, that's when they want to go bed, they are not going to like this. Jesus said: tell them its the most important thing in the religion, and if they don't obey, then death is the penalty. Simple as that.

Muhammed said: Jesus, people crucified you for asking for much less what are they going to do to me.??

Jesus said: don't worry I'm way ahead of you, tell your followers to fight back, and call it HOLY WAR, jihad, in short. Kill those who disagree with you.

And that's the way Islam came to be, because the more you look at Islam, you'll know that, it was written by a pissed off god. And after what those Jews and Romans did to Jesus. You know this religion was to get back at them.

There is more in Islam that after thinking about it, you'll visualize Jesus laughing his ass off at the world, saying: take that you bitched, who did you torture, ME, who did you crucify, ME, you think I would forgive you, hhhhhhlol.

Its like the scene in the Al pacino movie, the devils advocate, where he explains what happens when humans jump from one of Gods laws to the other.

Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:41 am

Actually, probably not far from the truth – minus the supernatural elements, of course.

In any case, my favourite part:

kurdistan101 wrote:

God said: the jury is still out on that one son. Exclamation

Oh man, that cracks me up.


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