Can a Christian, Muslim or Jew please give me a *clear* example of a unique prophesy coming to pass?
Thanks.
Anton Batey
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:38 am
A unique prophecy? It depends on what you consider unique. Because my idea of a unique prophecy might not be your idea of a unique prophecy.
To me the sheer fact that there are now Jews, Muslims, and Christians is a unique prophecy. To me the fact that there are countless religions and denominations is a prophecy. You see what I'm saying. Those are all unique. The fact that people like Sam Harris are preaching ant-christian messages is prophecy to me. Do you follow?
Fine.
Just give me an example of a *specific" prophesy.
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:05 am
Well to me a specific prophecy is this:
Matthew 24:25 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Now if you are talking about these false preachers talking about people getting cars, healed, etc. etc. I do not hold to that false belief because it is not even in the Bible they say they subscribe to. I know most atheist do not like me to quote the Bible but when dealing with a subject like this I have to.
Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Basically as a Bible believer the only prophecies I subscribe to are those found in the Bible. I'm not supposed to even call a thing a prophecy is God did not say it.
Now Minister Marvin Muhammad was (if I am not mistaken) on one of infidel guys' old programs. I never heard it but if he was anything like he was when he came to visit Pastor Gino N. Jennings then you may have heard him say he was Jesus, the Son of man, the Lord of men, etc etc.
Point is there are people who have said they are Jesus Christ, and this was already prophecied to happen. Father, Divine (George Baker) said it, Minister Farrakhan said it, Elijah Muhammad claimed his teacher W. D. Fard said it, Yahweh Ben Yahweh said it, and the list goes on and on.
Yeah, I was actually *there* in Philly when Jennings debated Minister Rodney Muhammad (well he actually high-tailed out of there) the day before, in April 2001, where he first debated Marvin for a few minutes.
The problem with your prophetic verse,
Quote:
Matthew 24:25 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
is this...
Ever since religion has been around, people have claimed to have divine powers. Right? Not only has Father Divine, Charles Manuel "Sweet Daddy" Grace (who called himself the "Messenger of God"), Noble Dru Ali, Elijah Muhammad, Fard Muhammad and other people not only in the United States, but the whole world who make claims to be divine, but even before Jesus supposedly existed, all people have been doing is making nothing but claims. People claimed to be the "Christ" the "fufilled the law" and the rest of the "Jesus Stories" long before the Bible was penned. For example, Attis of Phrygia, Horus/Osiris of Egypt, Mithra of Persia, and a ton of others.
Jesus has absolutely no more credibility than any of them.
So if I were to say, "
there will be many politicians in the future who claim to stand for democracy and freedom
", and the next President says that, you'd probably say, "Yeah, Ant was right...but so what? What's so significant about that? Presidents have been saying stuff like that since time immemorial".
See what I'm saying?
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:55 pm
Yeah I see what you're saying. I don't think I thought of it that way before. I don't know why but I haven't. So you were there when that happened? Why did you attend a religious event? Aren't you an atheist? Just wondering.
AntJ313 wrote:
Yeah, I was actually *there* in Philly when Jennings debated Minister Rodney Muhammad (well he actually high-tailed out of there) the day before, in April 2001, where he first debated Marvin for a few minutes.
The problem with your prophetic verse,
Quote:
Matthew 24:25 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
is this...
Ever since religion has been around, people have claimed to have divine powers. Right? Not only has Father Divine, Charles Manuel "Sweet Daddy" Grace (who called himself the "Messenger of God"), Noble Dru Ali, Elijah Muhammad, Fard Muhammad and other people not only in the United States, but the whole world who make claims to be divine, but even before Jesus supposedly existed, all people have been doing is making nothing but claims. People claimed to be the "Christ" the "fufilled the law" and the rest of the "Jesus Stories" long before the Bible was penned. For example, Attis of Phrygia, Horus/Osiris of Egypt, Mithra of Persia, and a ton of others.
Jesus has absolutely no more credibility than any of them.
So if I were to say, "
there will be many politicians in the future who claim to stand for democracy and freedom
", and the next President says that, you'd probably say, "Yeah, Ant was right...but so what? What's so significant about that? Presidents have been saying stuff like that since time immemorial".
Oh yeah!
I used to LOVE Pastor Jennings. I still have about 20 video tapes of him. I have this tape from back in August, 1994 where he debated Minister Reginald Young. First they debated the trinity (as you know, Jennnings is what you call a "Oneness"), then they debated whether water baptism should be done "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost", or "In the name of Jesus Christ". Jennings and Williams were saying that "Jesus" IS the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I thought Young beat Jennings on the subject of the trinity, and Jennings beat him on the subject of water baptism.
Yeah, I met a lot of the staff at the First Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jennings, Williams, Dan, etc. But yeah, I was in the audence when he was supposed to debate Min. Rodney Muhammad. He took up an hour and a half, and left. Then Marvin came on stage, followed by a Sunni Muslim, and so guy who gave Jennings a phony check of $100,000. But I just had a change of heart. I thought Jennings was trying to scare people into Christianity too much. Always using the threat of hell, a concept I could never truly accept. He is very sexist (although he uses the Bible to justify it, which is correct; like 2 Peter 2:12 and 1 Cor. 14:34), and he is extremely too homophobic, saying that gays should be killed (I have the tape where he said it). And he also said modern science was demonic.
To be honest, Jennings was my first step toward atheism.
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:18 pm
What are the program numbers for the tape wherein he said gays should be killed? (he's probably so homophobic because he is insecure about his own sexuality) And what are the tape or program numbers for the debate he had with Minister Reginald Young. I do not 100% agree with him and can see how what he teaches can even lead some to becoming either atheist or agnostic. I have the full debate with Marvin Muhammd on 3 tapes and another set of tapes were he discredits the Nation of Islam's Yakub theory of race creation. On program tape numbers 559, 560, and 561 Marvin Muhammad was debating with Gino Jennings on the Yakub theory that he talked about on tape programs 553, 554, and 554.
Okay he called Modern Science demonic? That insteresting considering that if not for modern science (electronic engineering) he would not have microphones, a piano/ organ, a television show, and not a webcast or telecast. One of his churches is broadcasted on his website live now.
I want to see if I can get those tapes you're talking about too though. He does seem kind of mean though. When you met them were they mean to you?
AntJ313 wrote:
Oh yeah!
I used to LOVE Pastor Jennings. I still have about 20 video tapes of him. I have this tape from back in August, 1994 where he debated Minister Reginald Young. First they debated the trinity (as you know, Jennnings is what you call a "Oneness"), then they debated whether water baptism should be done "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost", or "In the name of Jesus Christ". Jennings and Williams were saying that "Jesus" IS the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I thought Young beat Jennings on the subject of the trinity, and Jennings beat him on the subject of water baptism.
Yeah, I met a lot of the staff at the First Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Jennings, Williams, Dan, etc. But yeah, I was in the audence when he was supposed to debate Min. rodney Muhammad. he took up an hour and a half, and left. Then Marvin came on stage, followed by a Sunni Muslim, and so guy who gave Jennings a phony check of $100,000. But I just had a change of heart. I thought Jennings was trying to scare people into Christianity too much. Always using the threat of hell, a concept I could never truly accept. He is very sexist (although he uses the Bible to justify it, which is correct; like 2 Peter 2:12 and 1 Cor. 14:34), and he is extremely too homophobic, saying that gays should be killed (I have the tape where he said it). And he also said modern science was demonic.
To be honest, Jennings was my first step toward atheism.
Not at all. The staff was nice, but strict. Very orderly, and business like. Reminded me of when I used to go to Nation of Islam meetings. I met Marvin Muhammad too when he came to Detroit. Jennings is afraid to debate him again. Jennings tapped out when they debated, in my opinion. He promised Marvin 3 full hours, and stopped it after a little over an hour.
The episode where he said gays should die is the same famous episode where he responded to the phone call he got from a pissed off gay man, if you remember that one. They had that clip on his website. But the full tape you have too see where he said they should die. I'm trying to find it now...I'll get it for you.
The 1994 debate you can't get from the Church. I only have it on a cassette tape.
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:34 pm
Why do you think he is scared to debate Marvin Muhammad again? Also, you see how he is ducking True Islam (Westly X)? He won't debate him at all. Yeah he should have debated Marvin Muhammad until the end. He got scared because Marvin Muhammad was saying that he was Christ. The interpretation he got from the Bible about this could have converted some of his followers to what Marvin Muhammad believes.
AntJ313 wrote:
Not at all. The staff was nice, but strict. Very orderly, and business like. Reminded me of when I used to go to Nation of Islam meetings. I met Marvin Muhammad too when he came to Detroit. Jennings is afraid to debate him again. Jennings tapped out when they debated, in my opinion. He promised Marvin 3 full hours, and stopped it after a little over an hour.
The episode where he said gays should die is the same famous episode where he responded to the phone call he got from a pissed off gay man, if you remember that one. They had that clip on his website. But the full tape you have too see where he said they should die. I'm trying to find it now...I'll get it for you.
The 1994 debate you can't get from the Church. I only have it on a cassette tape.
hahaha, yeah, Jennings did duck the true Muslims. I thought I was the only one who noticed.
Yeah, lol, Marvin Muhammad is a crazy, funny guy.
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:37 pm
Well yeah that too, but there is a guy online named True Islam (Westly X) on www.theblackgod.com and he has wanted to debate Gino Jennings since he saw the debate Jennings had with Brother Thomas Smallwood. See what is interesting is that Gino Jennings talks about not hyping people up, but he does just that.
Yeah, he won't debate a Sunni or a Shiite. Maybe he is afraid of a national fatwa on his head because he travels around the world.
AntJ313 wrote:
hahaha, yeah, Jennings did duck the true Muslims. I thought I was the only one who noticed.
Right.
Jennings got popular from that Smallwood Muhammad/Najah Muhammad/Amin Kalif/other Muslim vs. Gino Jennings debate (lol) in November 2000. That
was
funny how he took down four of them in one day. If you noticed, Jennings was using the Qur'an against the members of the Nation...that was his cornerstone...so if he debates a Sunni or Shiite, who actually
go by
the Qur'an, Jennings wouldn't know what to do...I have a tape where he is reading letter from people, and someone directly asks him about what he thinks about Islam, and he didn't directly answer. He said something like, "Many people think I'm a Muslim", then he spoke about polygamy in Islam.
I think I have the Jennings/Young debate on CD. Maybe I can convert it to a wav file and e-mail it to you through YouSentIt.com. You'd probably like it. Young refused to answer Jennings' question at the end of the Baptism debate. But when they spoke about the trinity, Jennings didn't explain the verses that show the Father and
Jesus
as different people. I'm surprised he didn't go to Isaiah 9:6.
About Marvin "The Son of Man" Muhammad....I think Jennings thought he'd dominate the debate like he did with Smallwood, and make an ass out of him like he did Rodney. Even though Marvin said some crazy things, Jennings never really refuted him very good. Marvin had some kind of answer for everything Jennings said. When Jennings said, "All right....all right.....this ain't goin nowhere. I'm gonna cut it here", almost everyone in the Church were looking at each other in disbelief. Marvin later challenged him to a debate at a neutral location, and Jennings never returned the call. On August 24th of this year, he got into an interesting debate with Pastor Gene Cook. In my opinion, even though they both sounded crazy to me...objectively speaking, Marvin won the debate.
NATIONOFHOLINESS Post Noob
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 58
Posted:
Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:29 pm
Yeah that would be cool to get that debate I would really like to hear it. Yeah I think Marvin Muhammad won too because as you say he had an interpretation for things. May not be a so called good interpretation but it was a viable interpretation none the less.
Gino N. Jennings is not going to debate a Sunni Muslim. The reason I think this is seems to be because he has Sunni supporters. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get some teaching from an Imam. He may have even prayed at a Masjid. I only say this because not many Christians know even what he knows on Islaam. Of course even his knowledge of Islaam is incorrect.
He did think he would dominate the debate with Marvin Muhammad. They also cut a chunk of it out too I noticed that while watching it.
You know three debates I would love to see Gino try:
1.) Debating a Sunni Muslim
2.) A Hebrew Israelite
3.) An Atheist and or Agnostic
I say this because he would not win with either.
AntJ313 wrote:
Right.
Jennings got popular from that Smallwood Muhammad/Najah Muhammad/Amin Kalif/other Muslim vs. Gino Jennings debate (lol) in November 2000. That
was
funny how he took down four of them in one day. If you noticed, Jennings was using the Qur'an against the members of the Nation...that was his cornerstone...so if he debates a Sunni or Shiite, who actually
go by
the Qur'an, Jennings wouldn't know what to do...I have a tape where he is reading letter from people, and someone directly asks him about what he thinks about Islam, and he didn't directly answer. He said something like, "Many people think I'm a Muslim", then he spoke about polygamy in Islam.
I think I have the Jennings/Young debate on CD. Maybe I can convert it to a wav file and e-mail it to you through YouSentIt.com. You'd probably like it. Young refused to answer Jennings' question at the end of the Baptism debate. But when they spoke about the trinity, Jennings didn't explain the verses that show the Father and
Jesus
as different people. I'm surprised he didn't go to Isaiah 9:6.
About Marvin "The Son of Man" Muhammad....I think Jennings thought he'd dominate the debate like he did with Smallwood, and make an ass out of him like he did Rodney. Even though Marvin said some crazy things, Jennings never really refuted him very good. Marvin had some kind of answer for everything Jennings said. When Jennings said, "All right....all right.....this ain't goin nowhere. I'm gonna cut it here", almost everyone in the Church were looking at each other in disbelief. Marvin later challenged him to a debate at a neutral location, and Jennings never returned the call. On August 24th of this year, he got into an interesting debate with Pastor Gene Co0k. In my opinion, even though they both sounded crazy to me...objectively speaking, Marvin won the debate.
T he prophecies of the Tanakh do not refer to Yeshua but to other matters, so Jews are right not to accept him as messiah and Christians are wrong to maintain he is the object thereof. And those prophecies did not happen anyway!
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T he prophecies of the Tanakh do not refer to Yeshua but to other matters, so Jews are right not to accept him as messiah and Christians are wrong to maintain he is the object thereof. And those prophecies did not happen anyway! 
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