3) Fusion and fission you can make gold out of air water or dirt using fusion or turn led into gold removing some protons and electrons. The gold standard fails if somebody can start “printing” money like that and you cant locate or stop him. Consider also the discovery of new recourses or mining of metals in asteroids or moons.
Isn't that alchemy? WTF dude? No, seriously, WTF dude? The gold standard would fail- if Merlin was still alive!
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carx Confident Learner
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 60
Posted:
Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:14 am
Cygnus wrote:
Quote:
3) Fusion and fission you can make gold out of air water or dirt using fusion or turn led into gold removing some protons and electrons. The gold standard fails if somebody can start “printing” money like that and you cant locate or stop him. Consider also the discovery of new recourses or mining of metals in asteroids or moons.
Isn't that alchemy? WTF dude? No, seriously, WTF dude? The gold standard would fail- if Merlin was still alive!
Actually its modern atomic theory XD if you deny this you are denying radioactive decay in other words you are proposing that radioactivity doesn’t exist.
Sources for clams :
Scients textbook about chemistry and physics.
No, it's not. You have no idea what radioactive decay is about.
Cygnus Resident
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 379
Posted:
Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:02 am
Quote:
Actually its modern atomic theory XD if you deny this you are denying radioactive decay in other words you are proposing that radioactivity doesn’t exist.
Nothing decays into gold, dumbass.
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carx Confident Learner
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 60
Posted:
Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:54 pm
Cygnus wrote:
Quote:
Actually its modern atomic theory XD if you deny this you are denying radioactive decay in other words you are proposing that radioactivity doesn’t exist.
Nothing decays into gold, dumbass.
Not decay ! Fuse hydrogen and every element below gold you can fuse into gold !
And I’m going to post this again just to get the massage for some :
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
To make gold fuse oxygen , to create gold out of thin air.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 3845
Location: USA
Posted:
Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:34 am
Technically, carx is right. You could fuse gold out of other elements. However, the energy cost required would probably make the subsequent gold more costly then gold which is naturally formed.
I can see humans eventually evolving a system of economics which uses nothing but energy as the monetary agent. As we move our technology forward it seems energy will always be one of the largest limiting factors.
Cygnus Resident
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 379
Posted:
Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:46 pm
Somehow I don't see that gold fusion being real profitable.
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carx Confident Learner
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 60
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:26 am
MockingGods wrote:
Technically, carx is right. You could fuse gold out of other elements. However, the energy cost required would probably make the subsequent gold more costly then gold which is naturally formed.
I can see humans eventually evolving a system of economics which uses nothing but energy as the monetary agent. As we move our technology forward it seems energy will always be one of the largest limiting factors.
Thank you however I remember fusion of elements hire then iron costs energy while fusing lover then elements produces energy where gold would be a waist product to prove this :
in the news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4629239.stm
However the energy out put gets lover while approaching iron and maybe reaching gold requires additional energy ? I’m not a nuclear physicist however isn’t it possible to store the energy of the fusion before dropping and using this stored energy to get the fusion process to gold and get it for free / get additional energy / use little energy to get it ?
OK regardless of the response.
Gold is still impractical to move , here is something interesting for every resource/energy based system isn’t the fact that every person can start increasing the “money” splay dangerous (finding new hidden resources of gold for example ) ?
And the deflation first inflation later combo is most fatal for the majority of recourse based economies. Besides if we have a recourse based economy isn’t it going to stagnate since we eliminate the banking system ( Warning I have no exact knowledge about this last one ) ?
Cygnus wrote:
Somehow I don't see that gold fusion being real profitable.
The deflation - inflation combo can make it profitable. Firs we have deflation if we have not enough “money” for products and after this properly you can buy a entire country with a gold coin and that brings us back to how creating/finding a gram of gold will make somebody incredibly riche and the rest pore do to inflation generated.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 3845
Location: USA
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:07 am
Cygnus wrote:
Somehow I don't see that gold fusion being real profitable.
Gold's rarity it what makes it valuable (that and it pretty, shinny nature attracts vane humans). If you make gold less rare, it should likewise become less valuable.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 3845
Location: USA
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:18 am
carx wrote:
Thank you however I remember fusion of elements hire then iron costs energy while fusing lover then elements produces energy where gold would be a waist product to prove this :
I'm fairly certain the only known mechanism strong enough to fuse gold is a super nova. Given that, it's rather unlikely humans will be fusing gold anytime soon.
As far as I know, there will be no golden waist product from fusion as an energy source. I believe the only byproduct is helium. Not even the fusion reaction of our star (the sun) is strong enough to produce gold.
Quote:
And the deflation first inflation later combo is most fatal for the majority of recourse based economies. Besides if we have a recourse based economy isn’t it going to stagnate since we eliminate the banking system
I personally don't see any "economic system" being a solution to humanities major obstacles. In my opinion, our only real solution is some type of rational population control. As long as resources and energy are limited to a small percentage of our ever growing population base, we’ll always have difficulties that no reciprocal based system can or will solve.
carx Confident Learner
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 60
Posted:
Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:32 pm
quote]
I'm fairly certain the only known mechanism strong enough to fuse gold is a super nova. Given that, it's rather unlikely humans will be fusing gold anytime soon.
As far as I know, there will be no golden waist product from fusion as an energy source. I believe the only byproduct is helium. Not even the fusion reaction of our star (the sun) is strong enough to produce gold.
[/quote]
""" During their helium-burning phase, very high mass stars with more than nine solar masses expand to form red supergiants. Once this fuel is exhausted at the core, they can continue to fuse elements heavier than helium.
The core contracts until the temperature and pressure are sufficient to fuse carbon (see carbon burning process). This process continues, with the successive stages being fueled by neon (see neon burning process), oxygen (see oxygen burning process), and silicon (see silicon burning process). Near the end of the star's life, fusion can occur along a series of onion-layer shells within the star. Each shell fuses a different element, with the outermost shell fusing hydrogen; the next shell fusing helium, and so forth.[41]
The final stage is reached when the star begins producing iron. Since iron nuclei are more tightly bound than any heavier nuclei, if they are fused they do not release energy—the process would, on the contrary, consume energy. Likewise, since they are more tightly bound than all lighter nuclei, energy cannot be released by fission.[39] In relatively old, very massive stars, a large core of inert iron will accumulate in the center of the star. The heavier elements in these stars can work their way up to the surface, forming evolved objects known as Wolf-Rayet stars that have a dense stellar wind which sheds the outer atmosphere.
it ends on lead gold is before lead I remember that only elements hire then lead are produces in a supernova the radioactive decaying radium , polonium and the U family + others.
Quote:
I personally don't see any "economic system" being a solution to humanities major obstacles. In my opinion, our only real solution is some type of rational population control. As long as resources and energy are limited to a small percentage of our ever growing population base, we’ll always have difficulties that no reciprocal based system can or will solve
Actually I would not classify monetary views for a economics system its a money system the SU could function using the gold standard , no banking or abandon money and still their economic views remain the same despite the fact that they have changed parts of their system. this reminds me of a jock :
Christians : Not believing in god is a religion
Opposition : Then you have 2 religions Christianity and Athorism (insert the lack of believe in a other god.)
If monetarism is a economic system in itself then we have 2 economic systems
In my opinion money needs to be abandoned (in a crazy plot twist I'm convinced that the free market will force this so I support the completely free market) however this needs a long elaboration on my views and maybe I start a new thread for this.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 3845
Location: USA
Posted:
Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:30 am
carx quote wrote:
The core contracts until the temperature and pressure are sufficient to fuse carbon (see carbon burning process). This process continues, with the successive stages being fueled by neon (see neon burning process), oxygen (see oxygen burning process), and silicon (see silicon burning process). Near the end of the star's life, fusion can occur along a series of onion-layer shells within the star. Each shell fuses a different element, with the outermost shell fusing hydrogen; the next shell fusing helium, and so forth.[41]
The final stage is reached when the star begins producing iron. Since iron nuclei are more tightly bound than any heavier nuclei, if they are fused they do not release energy—the process would, on the contrary, consume energy. Likewise, since they are more tightly bound than all lighter nuclei, energy cannot be released by fission.[39] In relatively old, very massive stars, a large core of inert iron will accumulate in the center of the star. The heavier elements in these stars can work their way up to the surface, forming evolved objects known as Wolf-Rayet stars that have a dense stellar wind which sheds the outer atmosphere.
This is the way modern science understands the basic fusion reaction of the typical star. If you read that article carefully, you will notice that none of the heavier, rarer elements like gold, silver or platinum are formed by normal class stars, in fact, the process stops at iron (a common element). Notice how it plainly says, "the process of fusing iron consumes energy". The heavier elements, as far as we know, are only formed under the extreme fusion reactions of exploding stars or novas. This is precisely why these elements are rare, because nova type reactions are rare and brief.
I wrote:
As far as I know, there will be no golden waist product from fusion as an energy source. I believe the only byproduct is helium. Not even the fusion reaction of our star (the sun) is strong enough to produce gold.
The above was written in regards to human produce fusion reactors. In these reactions we'll only be fusing very light elements (hydrogen isotopes), so nothing heavier then light gases will be created from the fusion process.
carx wrote:
In my opinion money needs to be abandoned (in a crazy plot twist I'm convinced that the free market will force this so I support the completely free market) however this needs a long elaboration on my views and maybe I start a new thread for this.
I also think monetary based economic systems will eventually be abandoned. It seems our continued efforts to strip human labor out of the production chain might bring this about.
carx Confident Learner
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 60
Posted:
Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:41 pm
Ops iron got confused for lead in my model (my error sorry).
To the technicalities maybe we are so advanced like the Greek speculating on braking the sound barrier based on the icarus myth . I leave speculation to speculation however theoretically its possible maybe humans would need to artificially induce nova cycles or something however its possible the question for future generations remains how to do it.
The main concern is introduction of new money supply it this money can be created or found in the case of gold its not hard to imagine somebody finding huge reserves of gold in mercury or in a moon/asteroid. However this allays bothered me with capitalism 80% of resources are needed to be kept in bunkers to keep the riche rich. Imagine if gold lost its value we could build entire housing complexes with the gold that is in fortnox . Instead we need pointlessly to store it just this amount of gold can be used to build cars bridges and we can grab it hell its even refined and in nice blocks so every hobo can build a house stacking gold bard however we must keep it in bunkers how wistful and pointless.
kmisho Grand Poster
Joined: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 1678
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posted:
Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:52 am
The idea of money equivalence renders moot the idea of a value standard anyway. If you can establish that an ounce of gold is equal in value to a tone of rice then we could, equivalently, establish a rice standard.
carx, I am definitely curious what you mean by a free market driving out money. How will that work?
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 3845
Location: USA
Posted:
Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:03 am
kmisho wrote:
carx, I am definitely curious what you mean by a free market driving out money. How will that work?
Perhaps in as much as the free market is driving technology. I don’t see the monetary standard disappearing until human labor mostly disappears, which admittedly may or may not happen any time soon.
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. I leave speculation to speculation however theoretically its possible maybe humans would need to artificially induce nova cycles or something however its possible the question for future generations remains how to do it.
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