Jesus and the 82nd Psalm

Confident Learner Joined: Apr 29, 2006 Posts: 99

The eighty-second Psalm starts off with God standing at the head of the divine council, in a position of judgment. He judges the other gods. with accusations that the other gods have failed to uphold the poor and needy, to deliver them from the hands of the wicked.

There are two main lines of thought in Christianity regarding this Psalm. One line suggests that the god of the Jews, and therefore of Christianity, is supreme among the gods. The pagan gods were lesser deities, set to rule over other nations by this supreme leader, and they had failed him. Therefore, the day of judgment is at hand, and he is set to do just this. In verse six, he states that though they are gods, their punishment will be to die like men.

The alternative stance holds that the other "gods" are men in positions of power. Kings, it is argued, had been considered as having a divine status, and god is presiding in a place of judgment over these kings.

The English wording of this passage leaves many questions. "God stands in the congregations of the mighty; he judges among the gods" (SAB) Which god is rendering judgment? Has he no name?
Peacing together the words translated from the Hebrew, Elohim is arising in the assembly of El . The word Elohim is the Hebrew word for god, and can be singular or plural. In the poetic stance of the verse, we can fit this in only a singular stance, yet at the end of verse 1, it is used again in a plural. Thus, it is indeed "god" who is standing in the assembly of the gods, and the only deciding factor regarding which god is being spoken of as supreme is that it is a Hebrew verse.

El ] could be the Canaanite deity El, who is the head of the Syro-Palestinian pantheon, or it could be "divine" as in "divine assembly". It could also be a general terms used for god. The usage is unclear, leaving it to the readers preference in interpretation. So Elohim arises in the company of El] has generally been interpreted as the Judeo-Christian God rising in the divine council, or rising among the gods.

The first verse concludes with the use of the term [i]Elohim , which can only be used in a plural sense. So we find that Elohim is rising in the council of El to render judgment upon the Elohim.

Continuing throughout the entire Psalm, we find the same sort of ambiguity throughout. Much is left up in the air. However, the use of the term El offers contextual evidence that it was not the sons of god, which is the common Hebrew designation for kings or rulers, that are being spoken of. God is standing among other beings who are also gods, not men. He is judging them to strip them of their divinity, to take their immortality away from them, and cause them to "die like men"

In verse six, the Elohim , are presented as Elyori , a singular deity - The Most High. They will die like Adami . Than it concludes with the statement referencing the shining ones. Thus, the judgment is that though they are gods, they shall die like men, falling like one of the shining ones.

The writer of the gospel according to John apparently doesn't realize that who is being spoken of, however. In the tenth chapter, the Jews are preparing to prosecute Jesus and kill him for blasphemy. Jesus cries out that he has done many good works, and therefore there is no reason to stone him. The Jews say that they are going to stone him to death for the crime of blasphemy, because he said he was the son of god. Jesus replies to this accusation by stating that their laws, the Mosaic laws, say that they are gods.

There are two major flaws here. The Tehillim are not laws. The Jesus that the writer of John presents seems rather oblivious to this fact, however, and quotes Psalm 82:6 as being a law. He further suggests that all men to whom "the word of God came" are gods, so that it would not be blasphemy to say that you were the son of god nor to say that you were god. How could it be blasphemous, if God himself said that you were also gods?

Jesus seems to be very ignorant of the Hebrew connotations, and of the difference betweens laws and praises in the Torah. Furthermore, since every Jewish child could recite the entire Psalm, from memory, it is strikingly odd that he would not place such a statement in context. The Psalm had his God speaking to other divinities, not to "men whom the word of God had come".

Either Jesus is saying that we are all gods, or Jesus is playing the fool. Either way, the story just doesn't work.

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:55 am

Dissident1 wrote:

The Psalm had his God speaking to other divinities, not to "men whom the word of God had come".

Either Jesus is saying that we are all gods, or Jesus is playing the fool. Either way, the story just doesn't work.[/font]

If the story doesn't work then what was the point of all this writing? And what about James 3:9 in the Bible? Did you also find all the verses in the Bible that define the Hebrew God in physical form (i.e hands, feet, back, head, mouth, eyes, fingers, etc.)?

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:47 pm

I think it's quite clear that pre-christian Jews were polytheistic in the sense that they believed there were many gods. Thay had simply made a deal with one particular god. A good example of this is the 1st commandment: you shall have no other gods before me. This, along with numerous references to multiple gods in the OT, shows quite clearly that Jews believed in many gods but only followed one.

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:14 am

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

If the story doesn't work then what was the point of all this writing?

What is the point of "all your writing"?

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:23 pm

Dissident1,
Great post.

Kmisho,
The Old Testament certainly makes it seem lik there were more gods, and that YHWH was their special one or whatever, but none of the other gods are ever portrayed as having any power. They are all portrayed as idols. Know what I mean?

So I don't know what the Psalm is talking about. Maybe the Psalmist had a bit too much to drink that night and was imagining a scene where God was like, "Ha, bitches! Who's your daddy?!!" to all the other gods or idols or whatever. But to place any special meaning on what amounts to an ambiguous word (Elohim) in an ancient book from a drunk Psalmist, seems silly and pointless. UNTIL we get to Jesus. Then it gets interesting. It seems that every prophecy and every quotation of scripture attributed to Jesus was taken completely out of context, and this is no exception. And without even having to say it, you made that point very well, Dissident1.

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:26 am

Mr_C wrote:

Dissident1,
Great post.

Kmisho,
The Old Testament certainly makes it seem lik there were more gods, and that YHWH was their special one or whatever, but none of the other gods are ever portrayed as having any power. They are all portrayed as idols. Know what I mean?

So I don't know what the Psalm is talking about. Maybe the Psalmist had a bit too much to drink that night and was imagining a scene where God was like, "Ha, bitches! Who's your daddy?!!" to all the other gods or idols or whatever. But to place any special meaning on what amounts to an ambiguous word (Elohim) in an ancient book from a drunk Psalmist, seems silly and pointless. UNTIL we get to Jesus. Then it gets interesting. It seems that every prophecy and every quotation of scripture attributed to Jesus was taken completely out of context, and this is no exception. And without even having to say it, you made that point very well, Dissident1.

Good points. I think it's undeniable that the supposed Jesus prophecies were retrofitted after the fact to try to shoehorn Jesus into the messiah-spot.


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