Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:16 am
For those of us who "believe" that something comes from nothing, Lawrence Krauss talks cosmology.
For anyone with a spare hour and 400mb+ bandwidth before months end...
"The laws of physics allow the Universe to begin from nothing." [@ time 31:15]
Make of it what you will.
Or as "ThoughtCriminal696" put it;
BRAINGASM
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:15 pm
Re.
Non-Dogmatic Atheism
, an open letter
Dear All,
I'm copying this comment here from; http://www.infidelguy.com/ftopic-1635-days0-orderasc-45.html ...in essence, as a form of therapy, quite simply, seeing as non-belief is now a disorder. Now, my life makes more sense, phew! What a relief!
OK, here's what 'OC' posted about this vid. (nothing personal OC) and my response...
Quote:
OrdinaryClay wrote:
iPondR wrote:
Quote:
I think this is one of the most famous and believed (by atheists) speculations on the net. It is in fact nothing but speculation (which does not qualify as a prediction)
with no empirical science behind it
.
So, you've seen it already? I'd speculate it's one of the most widely dismissed by theists, yet one of the least watched.'Reasons to believe' dissed it without even knowing what's in it. Whatever.
Yes, I've seen it. So which of his claims do you purport to be scientific?
You've seen it? I'll then give you due respect. You've done better than 'Reasons To Believe' I too peruse opposing viewpoints and similarly remain unconvinced, so let's leave it at that for now.
I just don't get your question but I think that's your point and it's mine too! We have different understandings of 'scientific' - or should I say 'sufficient'
OC, again nothing personal, but I'm not going to answer your dismissal of my opinion w.r.t. this video. Instead I will point out that here, in my OP, I wrote;
me, wrote:
"The laws of physics
allow
the Universe to begin from nothing." [@ time 31:15]
Make of it what you will.
Note what Krauss
didn't
say, note what I
did
say. Now, if anyone's interested, watch from 09:00 for a minute or two and decide how dogmatic he is or is not being.
Now, this is my other post concerning this video.
I wrote:
OC and anyone else interested in Cosmology, if you have a spare hour, 440mb of bandwidth and some curiosity (humour would help too) - watch 'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss (google it) and
get a nuanced impression
of where things is at...
Again, read what I did and didn't say. I didn't say truth or ultimate reality or total understanding etc. So, basic lesson I've learned at the friendly IG forums, don't confuse philosophical naturalism with methodological naturalism.
So, with regard to 'which part is science'... where do we start? How about we
Start with a Bang
Make of it what you will...
Regards, iPondR
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:10 am
Once again, I come back to this link.
For anyone with a spare hour and 400mb+ bandwidth before months end...
I am wondering what are the steps that Christians go through to reach the conclusion that evolution is not true.
This is another observation based on the word 'Theory'. Firstly, those with the bible-verse view of the world view this vid by Lawrence Krauss as
The OC wrote:
I think this is one of the most famous and believed (by atheists) speculations on the net. It is in fact nothing but speculation (which does not qualify as a prediction) with no empirical science behind it .
Well, that's correct, only if you use the method shown below;
1. Close eyes,
2. Cover ears,
3. Shout 'La La La' (or should that be chant La La La)
This is similar to the way the Catholic Church is handling their policy re. little boys and holocaust denial...
Now, the statements made in the video
are
based on scientific observations and I have yet to see anyone take Dr Krauss to task within his chosen field. He did not base any of his statements on 'speculative theories' such as string theory (which is valid science nonetheless) YET, this is exactly where (I assume) the problem lies.
And it is the following; modern cosmology [based on abservations and measurements and multiple lines of evidence] is NOT the same as String Theory [which IS highly speculative and not at this point testable] and NOT the same as the 'Higgs Boson' [which is speculative but apparently testable] therefore, to OC and others like him I would say...
'time to take the fingers out of your ears and open those eyes...'
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:50 pm
I'm back onto this hobby horse thanks to 'AlphaOmigrane' whom I give thanks and acknowledgement for the diversion. This video really riles 'em up. F*ck I really love Krauss-y (as we'd refer to him in Oz)...
OK, what Wiki says about 'nothing' it's worth reading IMO;
Wiki wrote:
In physics, the word nothing is not used in any technical sense either.
A region of space is called a vacuum if it does not contain any matter, though it can contain physical fields. In fact, it is practically impossible to construct a region of space that contains no matter or fields, since gravity cannot be blocked and all objects at a non-zero temperature radiate electromagnetically. However, even if such a region existed, it could still not be referred to as "nothing", since it has properties and a measurable existence as part of the quantum-mechanical vacuum.
You can't get something from nothing but then, you can't have a nothing.
Discuss, if you could be bothered.
"KING LEAR: ..what can you say to draw
A third more opulent than your sisters? Speak.
CORDELIA: Nothing, my lord.
KING LEAR: Nothing!
CORDELIA: Nothing.
KING LEAR: Nothing will come of nothing: speak again.
That reminds me of the smartass (and HitchHikers fans know that nobody likes a smartass) who invented a drink called 'Nothing' as a way of catching out anyone who answers 'what do you want to drink' with 'nothing'... For more fascinating reading... about balls on humps... and being 50/50
The Big Bang theory has been accepted by a majority of scientists today. It theorizes that a large quantity of
nothing
decided to pack tightly together,--and then explode outward into hydrogen and helium.
somethings fishy here...
Quote:
According to this theory, in the beginning, there was no matter, just
nothing
ness. Then this nothingness condensed by gravity into a single, tiny spot; and it decided to explode!
....starting to sound familiar?...
Quote:
Where did this "superdense core" come from? Gamow solemnly came up with a scientific answer for this; he said it came as a result of "the big squeeze," when the
emptiness
made up its mind to crowd together.
OK A/O, and others, is this the kind of
crapola
you call 'regular science'??
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
MockingGods Master of Logic
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 5693
Location: Planet Earth
Posted:
Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:25 pm
Great video with Laurence Krauss. Some paraphrased quotes I particularly liked...
"Rare things happen all the time, including life."
"Forget Jesus, stars died so you can live."
"We (detectable matter) constitute 1 percent of a universe in which is 29 percent dark matter (I believe he said 30 percent, but the math doesn't work) and 70 percent dark energy".
What he discusses in this video is precisely the same as I'm hearing from cutting edge cosmology. Sadly, he didn't have time to discuss String theory. He also discussed how we know the universe is probably flat and could be infinite, which is my opinion as well.
_________________ Believing Yahweh could send someone to hell is just like believing Zeus could strike someone with a lightning bolt.
Religion: Born of human imagination, sustained by unapproachable dogma.
Branjo Just Arrived
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:42 am
It is a mindblowing lecture, one of my all time favorites.
When he said the distant future doesn't look rosy because things will only get further and further away until everything has red shifted out and the audience laughed. A theist I had recommended the video to said, "see all you atheists are sick, because you think its funny that things are going to get more and more desolate". I said "that's why the one life you have is all that much more poetically important, because you came into being by accidental events and that's probably the same way you will go out, se la ve." He didn't like that, he said "you are leaving no room for and eternal heaven" I said "of course not, but there is always room for 'Jello', heaven is far too wobbly a thing to place any hope in" didn't hear back from him after that.
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:16 am
Branjo wrote:
It is a mindblowing lecture, one of my all time favorites.
When he said the distant future doesn't look rosy because things will only get further and further away until everything has red shifted out and the audience laughed. A theist I had recommended the video to said, "see all you atheists are sick, because you think its funny that things are going to get more and more desolate". I said "that's why the one life you have is all that much more poetically important, because you came into being by accidental events and that's probably the same way you will go out, se la ve." He didn't like that, he said "you are leaving no room for and eternal heaven" I said
"of course not, but there is always room for 'Jello'
, heaven is far too wobbly a thing to place any hope in" didn't hear back from him after that.
Jell-O and well done Mr Branjo!
You make a crucial (yes the symbolism in that word is deliberate...) and cosmically vital point.
Most dogmatic fundamentalist believers seem to have had a humour bypass!
No, let me correct that statement...
ALL
of them seem to have had a humor-ectomy.
OK, take banana man for example... call THAT humour?!?
I wonder if there's any neuro-scientific reason. Betcha there is. (and that would make for a good thread topic, maybe...)
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
DigitalAtheist Graduate Thinker
Joined: Apr 13, 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Canada
Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:13 pm
Branjo wrote:
there is always room for 'Jello'
_________________ Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. - Cardinal Wolsey
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:32 am
Quote:
Anything that happens, happens. Anthing that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again. It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though.
Jell-O
again Infidels, shit, it would appear, does indeed happen and for no particular reason except that it, indeed, can. Constants appear, on closer inspection, appear to be variable (as we may well see in our lifetimes) and it is likely to be shown (IMHO) that the universe
as a whole
is the exception to all the rules. What is possible is that the universe is not especially fine tuned for life but parts of it phase in and out of habitability (due to local density) over vast distances and timescales. [more on that when I have the time, and can locate the references]...
Meanwhile, for your reading pleasure, I proffer Ethan Segal's latest blog post from over at science blogs...
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
BornAgainAthiest Graduate Thinker
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 669
Location: Here.
Posted:
Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:47 am
Good blog and good post, mate!
Umm... you're not a Queenslander, by any chance, iPondR?
We caught the tail end of Katrina, when she came thru here and that was more than enuff for me! My partner's got distant family (half-cousin) just to the north of Brisbane. The word from them is, 'No real problems. Just mightily pissed off!'
So, sorry to hear about your national trials and tribulations. But, Oz'l be right, eh?
BAA.
_________________ Nietzsche was wrong - god never lived.
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:51 am
BornAgainAthiest wrote:
Good blog and good post, mate!
Umm... you're not a Queenslander, by any chance, iPondR?
We caught the tail end of Katrina, when she came thru here and that was more than enuff for me! My partner's got distant family (half-cousin) just to the north of Brisbane. The word from them is, 'No real problems. Just mightily pissed off!'
So, sorry to hear about your national trials and tribulations. But, Oz'l be right, eh?
BAA.
Thanks for the thoughts B_A_A
No, not a Queenslander (do have relatives up there) I live in Sydney... AFAIK everyone OK up there.
They breed 'em pretty tough up there in FNQ (Far North Queensland) effen-Q MAATE!! (Four-ex country)
BTW - sorry about the late reply, been away from technology!
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
MockingGods Master of Logic
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 5693
Location: Planet Earth
Posted:
Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:53 am
iPondR wrote:
BTW - sorry about the late reply, been away from technology!
Glad to hear you're fine and welcome back
_________________ Believing Yahweh could send someone to hell is just like believing Zeus could strike someone with a lightning bolt.
Religion: Born of human imagination, sustained by unapproachable dogma.
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:01 am
MockingGods wrote:
iPondR wrote:
BTW - sorry about the late reply, been away from technology!
Glad to hear you're fine and welcome back
Thanks M_G
Good to be back at home base. _iP
I spent a short time in San Francisco, BTW. It surprised me the number of street beggars at the south end of Powell St.
Sad to say but a lot of them must be wondering what God's plan must be for them!
You'd pass some of them by and they'd say 'God Bless' to the refusals for small change... I mean, you can't help em all!
Of course some of them might be making an average wage from this, impossible to tell.
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
MockingGods Master of Logic
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 5693
Location: Planet Earth
Posted:
Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:12 pm
iPondR wrote:
MockingGods wrote:
iPondR wrote:
BTW - sorry about the late reply, been away from technology!
Glad to hear you're fine and welcome back
Thanks M_G
Good to be back at home base. _iP
I spent a short time in San Francisco, BTW. It surprised me the number of street beggars at the south end of Powell St.
Sad to say but a lot of them must be wondering what God's plan must be for them!
You'd pass some of them by and they'd say 'God Bless' to the refusals for small change... I mean, you can't help em all!
I had this experience with a beggar (panhandler as we call them here) back in the 80s when working in Southern California. It was right across the street from Disneyland at a gas station I frequented. He came up to me and ask for money so he and his family could purchase a bus ticket back to their home (somewhere east, I can't remember the state he used). It's my policy not to give money to panhandlers as it's illegal in the states and quite frankly I don't trust them to be actually destitute, so I refused with a simple no. A few weeks later, at the same gas station, the same person approached me with the same story. So I proceeded to say, "you gave me that same story a few weeks ago and I didn't bite, you think it's going to work now?". Needless to say he stalked off furious.
Quote:
Of course some of them might be making an average wage from this, impossible to tell.
It's my understanding that panhandling in the US can be, and often is, not only an average wage but actually quite lucrative. My motto is, "when money is involved, trust no one". It often saddens me that I must live in a world such as this.
_________________ Believing Yahweh could send someone to hell is just like believing Zeus could strike someone with a lightning bolt.
Religion: Born of human imagination, sustained by unapproachable dogma.
iPondR Graduate Thinker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 534
Location: Aussie Prawn Facility; District 10
Posted:
Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:17 am
M_G, Having returned home to Sydney... I get approached in the street by some wide-eyed woman who wants to know
'if you want to accept Jesus into your heart'
- "err, I'm alright thanks..." SHEESH :O
IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN... I SWEAR TO
DARWIN, NEWTON AND EINSTEIN
(if that's sufficient?)
> I'm gonna sing
'We Are the World'
if anyone walks up to me on the street and asks that question again.**
Swear!
Or, as an alternative, 'Dumb All Over (and a little ugly on the side) by Zappa... (it's on You-boobTube)
_________________ I take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance, any day... - Douglas Adams
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