Should prostitution be illegal?

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:58 am

Quote:

you need to be over 21

I would say 18. If one can join the army and kill another human being at 18, then I say they should be able to get into a brothel. I'm not in favor of the government regulating everything. They should keep out of what we do in our bedrooms, what we smoke, and what we drink. Sure, make all the pimps and child prostitution illegal, whatever hurts someone else, but leave us individuals alone.

Newbie Joined: Mar 12, 2009 Posts: 10

Oops, i missread it too. No, it shouldnt be illegal.

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

[b]As someone who works in the industry, I know for a fact that the laws make it more unsafe than if it were to be legal. There are misconceptions that the women who make a living in the sex industry are uneducated, were abused, are being taken advantage of, have a pimp, use drugs and are dishonest.
I got into the business, because I was robbed and my rent money was taken. I had a week to come up with $1000, other than robbing someone or selling drugs (which I would never do), I had one option. After a couple weeks, I understood why women do this. Not only does it pay well, it's a lot more satisfying being a whore than a slut.

If it were legal, the women would pay taxes, be checked for STD's on a regular basis and society in general would improve. I don't believe that street walking should be legal. There would then be no use for those pathetic little pimps, who are the only problem that the industry has. They are the ones who victimize the young girls with "issues".

The one thing that makes me laugh is that, the people who vote that it shouldn't be legal are the ones who can never explain why. I was reading posts, and dind't notice any people who could articulate exactly why it's illegal. The only argument that I've ever seen is a moral argument. The funny thing about morals are that everyone has their own mindset on what is right and wrong. If you follow your own beliefs, you cannot possibly be immoral. Personally, I wish I had had this mind set at 20, I'm in my mid 30's and could kick myself for missing out on this. Laughing

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:33 am

Cherry wrote:

[b]If it were legal, the women would pay taxes, be checked for STD's on a regular basis and society in general would improve. I don't believe that street walking should be legal. There would then be no use for those pathetic little pimps, who are the only problem that the industry has. They are the ones who victimize the young girls with "issues".

True. We have legal sex venues and streetwalking is illegal. It works, from what I understand.

Quote:

The funny thing about morals are that everyone has their own mindset on what is right and wrong. If you follow your own beliefs, you cannot possibly be immoral.

Don't agree fully, you're implying moral relativism. I would suggest that there are moral truths that arise from a combination of inbuilt biology and cultural adaptations.

As with anything to do with sex, the church want to control people's gonads, the government wants to tax them.

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

every female I know, who does this, has no problems with paying taxes. If it meant being legal, I would happily pay them. The problem with the church people, who like to force their views onto others is that they seem to forget that this country was built on religous freedom and we don't all think alike. Most of them are hypocrites anyways, passing judgement when the bible forbids it and a month ago, I "saw" a minister, who was married, had five kids and it was a sunday afternoon. But he condems us in public, hypocrite. Hell, I knew a girl who would regularly date a Maricopa County Official. But he turns around and votes to imprison us for having sex?

Some little twit can go screw 5 guys in one night and the police don't have a problem with that, but if I screw one guy and he gives me a gift, then I'm wrong and belong in jail for 15 days and deserve to be registered as a sex offender for life?

It's the oldest profession in the world and like it or not, it's not going to end because Sherriff Joe likes to hear himself speak and is himself a media whore. The valley has a lot more serious problems than worrying about who's having sex. With all the meth addicts I see everyday (and there are a LOT of them out there), they have bigger fish to fry. Focus on the really harmful crimes and get out of my bedroom Laughing

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:23 am

iPondR wrote:

Don't agree fully, you're implying moral relativism. I would suggest that there are moral truths that arise from a combination of inbuilt biology and cultural adaptations.

As a moral relativist myself, I would argue that our morals are relative to our inbuilt biology and culture; they are only true to us and the result of causation. Given different circumstances (biology/environment) our morals could and probably would be completely different. I would also like to say that morals can both be relative and objective at the same time. In my opinion, the opposite of moral relativism is moral absolutism.

I think this discussion on prostitution expresses my ideology quite well. If say one's position was coming from a puritanical religious perspective, they would probably find it immoral; from my more secular perspective I find the practice consensual and if not moral at least morally neutral. The very fact that there can be two diametrically opposed moral positions shouts relativism.

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:32 am

Quote:

Hell, I knew a girl who would regularly date a Maricopa County Official.

Hey, we're practically neighbors. Welcome to the forums Cherry.

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

MockingGods wrote:

Quote:

Hell, I knew a girl who would regularly date a Maricopa County Official.

Hey, we're practically neighbors. Welcome to the forums Cherry.

[b]
well thank you darlin.

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:03 pm

Where are my manners! Welcome Cherry!

MG, I made the comment about this statement; "If you follow your own beliefs, you cannot possibly be immoral."

By which I mean, yes you can be immoral, depending on what your beliefs are. Suicide bombers might have a belief that what they are doing is moral because they do it for their god. (etc.)

However, point taken about moral relativism v's moral absolutism. Absolutism is usually advanced by theists who claim that morality comes from 'up there'... and of course perfect and unchangeable and only understood through their particular brand of religion.

Interesting contradiction here, with religion pushing the sanctity of life, therefore opposing abortions etc. while (for some) at the same time supporting capital punishment and the invasion of 'rogue states'. Moral absolutism?

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

Again, thank you

but that is going against someone elses morals. My moral system is that as long as you're not doing anything that hurts you or someone else, then do your thing. Nobody should tell me what is right or wrong in my life.

People need to concentrate on their own lives. I believe in discretion and believe in keeping the lifestyle far away from children, but if I can walk down the street, dressed like a normal person, then make my living having fun, then I believe that it's within my moral belief. Who wrote the spedific moral guidelines? Please don't say the bible. I was raised Catholic and I've read the book cover to cover. I also know that it was writen by men who "claimed to her the voice of God", lets say that they did. Has you ever played that game where someone whispers something in a persons ear and by the time it get down the line, it's totally different from the original? Human perseption. Then there is the fact that not only are there different "version" of the bible, but it wasn't originally writen in English. It was writen in a language that very few people can read or understand anymore. So you just have to take the word of the translator, who by the way is translating from a language that cannot possibly be translated word for word, into English. But hey, if someone chooses to believe and they have faith, more power to them. BUT do not force your morals onto me. The country was founded so that those who were facing religeous persicution, could be free to believe what they wanted.

think about it, would you rather have a house, set out of town, where the women stay inside, are paying their taxes, are practicing safe sex, who have to take random drug tests and be screened for STD's monthly or weekly even. Or do you want to explain to your little girl, why that lady is on the corner in her underwear and heels, twitching and begging men for a "date".

Regulation would seriously cut down on the negetive side of the business. Hell make the street walking and pimping penilties harsher. I don't think that any female should degrade herself by standing on a corner with her business hanging out. It hurts otheres, kids have the right to innocense and they usually hurrass people who are just walking/driving down the street.

The fact is, that right now, more women are getting into this out of desperation and financial need. Is it really fair to throw a women in jail and register her as a sex offender, because she wants to keep her children out of a shelter? Especially right now, we're not making a fortune. Most of the women are holding on for dear life. (Especially in Phx) Because of the huge bust, men are afraid that they will be publically humiiliated, put in jail for 15 days and lose their job. And for what? Having consentual sex with another grown adult? To me that is immoral

Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:44 pm

Cherry wrote:

Again, thank you

but that is going against someone elses morals. My moral system is that as long as you're not doing anything that hurts you or someone else, then do your thing. Nobody should tell me what is right or wrong in my life.

Your system & mine would be similar then. Suicide bombing would also be against what could be argued as common human morals. To kill for religious reasons is wrong to everyone except the fanatic. What's worse is that it is usually politically motivated. Yet, one can sympathise on rare occaisions, say, for a Palestinian who knows no better and is in a politically helpless position. That still doesn't make it morally right from this side of the fence.

Getting to your story, to me, your position is perfectly reasonable and rational and moral. In my part of the world and others this has already happened. What I'd like to say is that this seems to work. There are some problems, naturally. There are also political factions (Christian) who would love to re-criminalise it. That's their way of trying to get into power. I dread the day they start to get traction, hopefully never.

A legal system would probably agree with you, were it not for political interference.

The point re. the Bible and Chinese whispers is apt here, I was at the pub, talking to a well known Aussie skeptic last Thursday. He gave me the example of the word that creationists use for species; 'kinds'. Apparently, to someone who understands Hebrew, the common reading of 'and their kinds' should really be 'of all kinds' (I paraphrase here!).

I won't go on about this except to say that the 'good book' that is the only book you'll ever need is nothing of the sort. And it reads exactly that way. Like the stream of consciousness from an alzheimers patient... rare moments of clarity in a sea of incoherence. I like the idea of the Jefferson's Bible, take a razor & cut out the crap bits. Then I'd accept it as part of our literary history, like Shakespeare.

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:57 pm

I still won't weigh in on this topic, except to note that the majority of the people here have approved the amsterdam-style legalization of prostitution. I'm reluctant to jump on the bandwagon. It seems like too much of an "easy out." I think the problem is bigger, and the legalization approach seems like a band-aid solution.

I'd like to refer participants on this thread to a recent podcast of the Humanist Network News (podcast #41, here) . One of the articles is a presentation by a person opposed to the legalization plinth. (Note that she is also well opposed to the status quo.) It provides some interesting and intelligent counters to the overwhelming bias presented on this forum.

Interesting thread.
Hoping that this helps.

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

But as a hard working. tax paying citizen, wouldn't you find it fair that working girls are taxed as well. Think about it. I for example, "my friend"recieves $200+ an hour, the average income here is approx $25, many making minimum wage which is $7.50 an hour.
I would gladly pay taxes, seeing as I started working at the age of 14 and didn't get into this until I was 34. Right now, the US gonverment needs all the helo that they can get. An obvious solution is to make this legal and tax us.

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:40 pm

I listened to the HNN podcast and I disagree. I think many of the problems stemming from prostitution are directly because it is criminalized. That blocks women from using the legal system to settle any dispute or charge anyone with a crime against them. It's similar to the problems illegal aliens have here. Since they are already breaking the law, they can't report any crime when they are a victim.

Some people call it degrading, but when compared to some other jobs it can come out better. At least the pay is better.

Just Arrived Joined: Sep 04, 2009 Posts: 8

the people who call it degrading, have never been in the situation. Most of the gentelmen that I have met, worship me. I don't give appts to men who think that they're superior. The only person who can deturmine if they are degraded, is the person going through it. I personally think it's degrading when a married man is told by his wife, what he can and can't do. Or have had the threat of witholding sex as a tool to control them. But I'm not in that situation, so it's not my business to pass judgement.

As far as our ability to report crime, you are 100% correct. When I was new, I had a "date" who didn't want to take no for an answer when he asked if he could sodumize me (sorry if it's spelled wrong, I think you get what I'm saying). I was raped, what could I do except warn the other women? When the same guy tried it on a friend of mine, he found himself staring down the barrel of a 357 magnum Smile

Then I had a "date" follow me to my home, proceed to stalk and threaten me and my daughter. I called the police. The one on the phone was really cool, but the douche bag who came to take the report, told me that I asked for it. He refused to do anything. So I had to file a complaint with his superior and he then called and told the guy that if he didn't stop, he would be arrested. My only power is that I know the mans real name and where he lives and work. If I didn't, I guarantee that the nut would still he messing with me.


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