The Invisibility of The Black Atheist

Thinker Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 429

I think we're all pretty much opposed to it becoming a 'popular' movement. Message is an important part of the movement becoming accepted. I see marketing as how the movement portrays itself. There needs to be a good portrayal in order for it to catch on.

Newbie First Class Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 29

achoo wrote:

[i] But I notice Mr. WrathJW has not responded to BALLSE or Mr. Everbleed and probably won’t. Mr. WrathJW may be Afro centric. The moment “Americans who happen to be black” hear that BALLSE was the idea of an “American who happens to be white” it will fall stillborn.

Now, that's a hell of an assumption. No, there is nothing preventing me from responding to Everbleed and definitely not his color. I hope he did not feel that he was being ignored. In fact, I did respond to him, though I did not specifically address his idea of a Black Humanistic organization. I do believe, however, that in the above context "Afrocentric" was meant as a PC term for racist and that, I most assuredly, am not. So here's my thoughts on BALLSE specifically.

I like the idea of an organized movement of Black American atheists to present an antidote to the type of dogmatic superstitious thinking that has shackled our community. I think that just starting a non-profit association with a website and a cool name won't cut it though. There needs to be a galvanizing force that would bring them to that website or magazine and make Black Americans eager to join the organization. I agree with Everbleed that marketing would be one of the major obstacles and one of the most important goals. I'm not sure how exactly that might be accomplished but it's something that has to happen. I have thought quite a bit about how best to stimulate a larger portion of the Black community to ask the type of questions I have been asking. I was trying to think of a way to expose more people to muscicians like Greydon Square and somehow link it to my book. Maybe even combine to do a book tour and album promotion in order to reach a greater segment of Black America.

But we need lecturers and spokesman with larger status than I to tour the country speaking to the Black community. We need sports figures, actors, musicians, and political leaders who are closeted Black atheists to come out and speak up. The problems with that are obvious though. Speaking up about their lack of faith could have a negative impact on their careers and their standings in the Black community so it would take an uncommon courage or recklessness.

What is also needed is a book, album, or movie that would spark interest in the movement the way Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins created such interest with their books and drew atheists together and brought them to websites like this one. I would bet that all of these groups grew exponentially with the release of these books. They served as a beacon leading the way for many atheists and skeptics to come out of hiding. There needs to be some similar event directed specifically at Black Americans and then one directed specifically at Latino Americans and specifically at Asian Americans etc. etc. Then, the organization would easily follow.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:52 pm

achoo wrote:

Mr. Kmisho,

I think Mr. Everbleed made it clear his plan required an organization of black elite. I am also not sure he is talking about big flashy ad campaigns either. Marketing isn't just about flashy campaigns. Mr. Everbleed has repeated what seems to be his mantra so many times, "message, money and marketing" I think you are putting the marketing before the message and the money Kmisho.

I re-read his posts quickly and I think maybe you are contemplating what Mr. Everbleed said through your own filter. Not that we don't all do that, but in this case you may have misunderstood him somewhat.

Thanks for the tips by the way. So much to read, so many places to go. I hope the RationalResponders is half as good as you folks.

Also...there is no reason why what I am doing and what he is doing cannot go hand-in hand.

As Cygnus said, the message trumps everything else.

I suppose I was more concerned with the dangers of a popularizing approach which, while not utterly damning, would have to be carefully watched at all times. Pop music is called 'bubble gum' for a reason. It's real tasty at first then it becomes bland almost instantly at which point you spit it out and move on.

Newbie First Class Joined: Apr 26, 2008 Posts: 44

Dear WrathJW,

No indeed, I had not even considered the idea that you were not responding to me. Few do, so I am generally unconcerned.

However, I do appreciate your response. And you, in my opinion, hit the nail on the head and buried it in one blow when you mentioned the negative impact on "careers and standing". It is EXACTLY that which has prevented The Fearless from gaining much, if any ground even with Dawkins, Harris et al.

The next nail you pounded in one blow is when you mentioned "courage". Courage is sorely lacking in America today. We have become so PC no one dares utter a word. One of the reasons I am so enamored of you so quickly is besides your obvious intelligence I see you display abundant courage, and it helps that you look like and are a "warrior".

As to the "exponential" growth of Fearless websites, I am afraid what I have seen is what I have seen for decades. Immediate interest, followed by immediate infighting, followed by immediate abandonment. Kmisho mentioned in the other thread that even TIG has been going through a rough patch and it is apparent that few people are actually participating. It is true of all of the sites, even Dawkins' and Harris'.

One last thought. The "galvanizing force" will have to be controversy. Some kind of "newsworthy" controversy. And I think it would have to be planned and manipulated in order to be managed when it does happen.

I have sent you a PM Wrath in case you don't notice.

I truly, dearly and desperately hope you and mlackey stay healthy and continue the struggle. You and the few others like you will eventually make a difference and I am honored to had the great good fortune to have "known" you, even if it is merely in a forum.


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