The Invisibility of The Black Atheist

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:43 pm

WrathJW wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

WrathJW wrote:

kmisho wrote:

This is very cool. Are you guys following the BLACKS AND RELIGION thread? It's a good time to put some real effort into this issue.

I can't locate the Blacks And Religion thread. Where is it?

It's right on the front page in the forums box, typed in all capital letters.

Okay, it was under General Forums under General Discussion. You had me thinking I was going crazy looking for it on the main forum page. I found it, read it, and I think that thread has gotten so derailed that it should just die a quick painless death.

But there was some good discussion. And it was just one guy with a too acidic attitude...who I happen to think belongs here but doesn't know it yet.

Also, it's fortuitous that that discussion was going along when your post popped up. I found your blog top notch, after reading the first 4 or 5 socio-political entries, and am going to advertize it a little. Looking at your blog profile...I've been listening to Marley's tune Babylon System about 10 times a day for a few weeks now. Songs don't come any better.

And...after I brought up the book African American Atheists and Political Liberation , the guy who wrote it actually shows up. Proof that giving up after a little derailment can be a very bad thing.

Newbie Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 22

Wrath, Had I known of you before I finished writing my book on African American Atheists, I would have included you in it. Great essay. Your poetic style and militant tone remind me of Wright and Fanon when they are at their poetic best.

As for black female atheists, I have run into quite a few over the years, but they are all professors. But here are some quotations from Nella Larsen and Zora Neale Hurston, two African American novelists who are very insightful about the destructive consequences of Christianity.

First Hurston: As an empiricist with formal training in anthropology, Hurston could not take the leap of faith: “Priests,” she tells her former husband in a letter, “have lectured me on my intellectual approach instead of trusting all and everything to faith which my mental set-up will not allow” (699). If there were a God, Hurston reasons, “He should want humans to know certain things and to be guided by these principles” instead of “reveal[ing]” Himself and his principles “to so few” (699). That is, if there were a God, He or She should be accessible to everyone rather than a chosen few. She goes on to claim: "The sun shines fully upon us everyday. Why cannot His will be as freely revealed since it is so important? And why allow Himself to be so easily misconstrued? Why so many religions? Why 'reveal' Himself to an Arab in one light and to a Caucasian in another? And to a Hindu in still another and to a Mongol in still another? No, I cannot go for that" (699).

Now for Larsen. In her novel "Quicksand," the main character, Helga, finally rejects belief in God. After going through a horrible labor, she says to herself: "In that period of racking pain and calamitous fright Helga had learned what passion and credulity could do to one. The cruel, unrelieved suffering had beaten down her protective wall of artificial faith in the infinite wisdom, in the mercy, of God. For had she not called in her agony on Him? And He had not heard. Why? Because, she knew now, He wasn't there. Didn't exist" (130). In the next paragraph, she draws the same conclusion as Wrath about the God and religion. Here's what she thinks to herself: "With the obscuring curtain of religion rent, she was able to look about her and see with shocked eyes this thing she had done to herself. She couldn't, she thought ironically, even blame God for it, now that she knew that He didn't exist. No. No more than she could pray to Him for the death of her husband, the Reverend Mr. Pleasant Green. The white man's God. And His great love for all people regardless of race! What idiotic nonsense she had allowed herself to believe. How could she, how could anyone, have been so deluded? How could ten million black folk credit it when daily before their eyes was enacted its contradiction?"

One last thing, Wrath. Sylvester Johnson has written a book titled "The Myth of Ham in the Nineteenth Century." In the introduction to his book, he explains the kind of difficulties he had coming out to his family as an atheist. His story reminds me of some of your comments. He claims that the pressure in the black community to be a believer is very intense.

Talk to you later,
michael

Newbie First Class Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 29

kmisho wrote:

WrathJW wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

WrathJW wrote:

kmisho wrote:

This is very cool. Are you guys following the BLACKS AND RELIGION thread? It's a good time to put some real effort into this issue.

I can't locate the Blacks And Religion thread. Where is it?

It's right on the front page in the forums box, typed in all capital letters.

Okay, it was under General Forums under General Discussion. You had me thinking I was going crazy looking for it on the main forum page. I found it, read it, and I think that thread has gotten so derailed that it should just die a quick painless death.

But there was some good discussion. And it was just one guy with a too acidic attitude...who I happen to think belongs here but doesn't know it yet.

Also, it's fortuitous that that discussion was going along when your post popped up. I found your blog top notch, after reading the first 4 or 5 socio-political entries, and am going to advertize it a little. Looking at your blog profile...I've been listening to Marley's tune Babylon System about 10 times a day for a few weeks now. Songs don't come any better.

And...after I brought up the book African American Atheists and Political Liberation , the guy who wrote it actually shows up. Proof that giving up after a little derailment can be a very bad thing.

Point well taken. I looked up the book you mentioned but it will probably be a while before I can pick it up. My to-be-read pile is just out of control right now. I'm probably a year behind and I keep adding to the pile. Glad you enjoyed the blog by the way.

Newbie First Class Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 29

mlackey wrote:

Wrath, Had I known of you before I finished writing my book on African American Atheists, I would have included you in it. Great essay. Your poetic style and militant tone remind me of Wright and Fanon when they are at their poetic best.

As for black female atheists, I have run into quite a few over the years, but they are all professors. But here are some quotations from Nella Larsen and Zora Neale Hurston, two African American novelists who are very insightful about the destructive consequences of Christianity.

First Hurston: As an empiricist with formal training in anthropology, Hurston could not take the leap of faith: “Priests,” she tells her former husband in a letter, “have lectured me on my intellectual approach instead of trusting all and everything to faith which my mental set-up will not allow” (699). If there were a God, Hurston reasons, “He should want humans to know certain things and to be guided by these principles” instead of “reveal[ing]” Himself and his principles “to so few” (699). That is, if there were a God, He or She should be accessible to everyone rather than a chosen few. She goes on to claim: "The sun shines fully upon us everyday. Why cannot His will be as freely revealed since it is so important? And why allow Himself to be so easily misconstrued? Why so many religions? Why 'reveal' Himself to an Arab in one light and to a Caucasian in another? And to a Hindu in still another and to a Mongol in still another? No, I cannot go for that" (699).

Now for Larsen. In her novel "Quicksand," the main character, Helga, finally rejects belief in God. After going through a horrible labor, she says to herself: "In that period of racking pain and calamitous fright Helga had learned what passion and credulity could do to one. The cruel, unrelieved suffering had beaten down her protective wall of artificial faith in the infinite wisdom, in the mercy, of God. For had she not called in her agony on Him? And He had not heard. Why? Because, she knew now, He wasn't there. Didn't exist" (130). In the next paragraph, she draws the same conclusion as Wrath about the God and religion. Here's what she thinks to herself: "With the obscuring curtain of religion rent, she was able to look about her and see with shocked eyes this thing she had done to herself. She couldn't, she thought ironically, even blame God for it, now that she knew that He didn't exist. No. No more than she could pray to Him for the death of her husband, the Reverend Mr. Pleasant Green. The white man's God. And His great love for all people regardless of race! What idiotic nonsense she had allowed herself to believe. How could she, how could anyone, have been so deluded? How could ten million black folk credit it when daily before their eyes was enacted its contradiction?"

One last thing, Wrath. Sylvester Johnson has written a book titled "The Myth of Ham in the Nineteenth Century." In the introduction to his book, he explains the kind of difficulties he had coming out to his family as an atheist. His story reminds me of some of your comments. He claims that the pressure in the black community to be a believer is very intense.

Talk to you later,
michael

Great hearing from you, Micheal. I would love to get your input on the book I am currently working on. It is my first non-fiction book and I am finding that the differences between fiction and expository writing are few but significant enough that I know I'm going to need a damn good proof reader. Where might I find Sylvester Larson's book? It looks like, between the two of you, I'm going to be adding to my to-be-read pile again.

Newbie First Class Joined: Apr 26, 2008 Posts: 44

I enjoyed your article very much WrathJW. It seems you know whereof you speak from personal experience. Much of what you express has been said before, as I am sure you know and as mlackey pointed out. The difference is that YOU said it, and said it well. And certainly with greater credibility than if I or anyone else without your credentials had said it.

It is too bad you believe the other Blacks and Religion thread is "derailed". Actually I think that conversation and this one are on similar trajectories, even if the other wanders on occasion. "Writing off" what is happening there would be tantamount to our writing off what you have said because you say it "straight". I think that what you are saying is just in a different style than what mlackey is saying. I do not believe you and mlackey would disagree much at all.

It is time for free thinkers of all colors and all flavors to start thinking "united". We are all just too damn smart for our own good. We are all just so darn critical and analytical we can't even cooperate amongst ourselves.

Dismissing each others valid, and honest efforts to articulate and discuss ways and means of solving the REAL problems doesn't do a bit of good.

We have been doing that for decades. And look where it has gotten us.

Newbie First Class Joined: Apr 26, 2008 Posts: 44

Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, please understand the following is a spontaneous exhalation of an idea festering in my head for ages and written at 4:00AM after waking up from a dream staring WrathJW. Only here and now have I dared even suggest this and then with the proviso that the idea is only minimally formed and articulated herein. I have posted this on both relevant threads on TIG.

How black Americans can save the Earth.

Create an organization. Pick a name for the organization that is very easy to remember and defines who you are, what you do and your intentions. Something like: BALLSE Black Americans Loving Life & Saving Earth (Roll eyeballs and spit expletives here.) First, make a website. A really classy, deep, comprehensive website.

Write a manifesto. State your love of Earth and all peoples on Her, and the Love and Joy you feel for Life and Humanity and the desire to have it continue. State how you can help save the Earth. Reject faith of every stripe and declare the myth based religions of your former masters as the catalyst and perpetuator of enslavement of ALL men and women. Declare your confidence in the ideals of love, life and mankind and the pursuit of truth through reason and science.

Recruit, indoctrinate and mentor every black educator, artist, musician, talk show host, author, athlete, politician, movie director, rapper, dancer, animator, engineer, entrepreneur, manufacturer, designer, architect and actor you can find. State that membership is open to all people. State that you are simply a group of black Americans who have initiated and lead a movement which is for everyone who thinks, loves life and loves Earth. Reject faith and its leaders, and that means rejecting Jesse, Al, Wright and Louis and all who would continue the enslavement of all men and women with the incoherent adherence to irrational ideas and dogmas.

Write THE book. Then write a bunch more. Script the movie. Make the movie. Get big stars. Write songs. Paint pictures. Do the talk show circuits. Protest and draw attention to the organization whenever faith and the faithful attack reason. Do interviews after games, award shows and performances and declare you are BALLSE. Do concerts. Dance dances. Host conventions and make them HOT. Buy billboards. Buy advertising. Raise money… lots of it. Spend it. Love each other. Support each other. Help each other. Stop bickering. Stop being sensitive, paranoid and angry. Control testosterone. Think big. Think big picture. Think about kids and the kids you want your kids to marry. Work to save their world. Reach out to the underprivileged, and the disenfranchised. Give them the means to educate themselves and be educated. Help them grow. Convert Oprah. Convert Obama.

Identify and recruit rational men and women of any color to run for any and all political and community offices. Do what the Christian right has been doing for years. Infiltrate the political process but do it openly and unashamedly. Recruit, endorse and support all people of any color who believe in and live the manifesto. Embrace the free thought movement and all of its flavors and leaders except those who endorse militant, divisive attitudes and means. Embrace science and education. Sponsor scholarships. Build schools. Build universities. Build hospitals.

Create centers to replace the vital mechanisms and functions of society currently served by churches. Have places to marry. Have places to learn. Have places to congregate. Create rituals to replace the religious rituals. Have places to disseminate knowledge.

Demand equal treatment and respect. Speak out against all faith based initiatives and movements without alienation or meanness. Do good things and give credit to good people. Help sway the undecided and make them know they are welcome and respected.

Americans of African descent have a unique opportunity to do something special. America and the world are ripe and receptive to new ideas. People everywhere are worried. They are looking for something to cling to. How about each other? But the very people who have the best chance of really making a difference are so busy wrangling with each other they are allowing the worst of us to prevail and to dominate us all.

The Earth is in trouble. If there is anyone out there who thinks we are not just a few years from big trouble, you are living in a hole. If there is anyone out there who does not believe that another major terrorist attack on the US, or an oil embargo, or a food shortage could trigger a global collapse, then they are ignoring history and modern reality.

The world is linked by the Internet. Memes can spread quickly. Change can happen but it will not, and can not be based on faith. Faith must be replaced with confidence. Faith must be replaced with love. Not biblical love. Real love. Like the ideal of Christ but without the most insidious evil on Earth… Priests, pastors, reverends and faith healers.

We might be the only intelligent life we will ever know. I don’t think life capable of comprehending itself is common in the Universe. We have an obligation to save ourselves. We have and obligation to know the Universe. WE might be God.

If man needs a God then instead of making the arrogant assumption that we know what God is and what it wants, we should instead embrace the idea that The Search for God is God.

I am not talented enough to articulate myself like mlackey and WrathJW, but I do believe we free thinking people really need to get our act together and unify. I love all men. I love life. I love living. I love my kid. I love your kids. I love you. Think.

The rope is around my neck and I am standing on the scaffold. I am ready.

Newbie First Class Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 29

Everbleed wrote:

I enjoyed your article very much WrathJW. It seems you know whereof you speak from personal experience. Much of what you express has been said before, as I am sure you know and as mlackey pointed out. The difference is that YOU said it, and said it well. And certainly with greater credibility than if I or anyone else without your credentials had said it.

It is too bad you believe the other Blacks and Religion thread is "derailed". Actually I think that conversation and this one are on similar trajectories, even if the other wanders on occasion. "Writing off" what is happening there would be tantamount to our writing off what you have said because you say it "straight". I think that what you are saying is just in a different style than what mlackey is saying. I do not believe you and mlackey would disagree much at all.

It is time for free thinkers of all colors and all flavors to start thinking "united". We are all just too damn smart for our own good. We are all just so darn critical and analytical we can't even cooperate amongst ourselves.

Dismissing each others valid, and honest efforts to articulate and discuss ways and means of solving the REAL problems doesn't do a bit of good.

We have been doing that for decades. And look where it has gotten us.

Please don't misunderstand. I was not dismissing what anyone was saying as valid. It just seemed to be degenerating into petty bickering and that's where I get off. I enjoyed reading the substantive posts but didn't feel I had anything to contribute to it and I resist being drawn into arguments that seem to be heading in a circle. I actually got quite a bit from what both you and Micheal were saying, so much so that I ordered his book despite my increaing lack of time and money. I will make time to read it. It's just hard with a novel that's about to be behind deadline if I don't finish up the edits and a non-fiction book on Black Atheism that I really really want to finish and a bookshelf full of books that I need to read in order to give balance to the book and feel like I have done a thorough job of researching my opinions. Damn, that was one hell of a long sentence. I guess that's why editors have jobs. Anyway, it's great meeting and talking with all of you and I hope to get your input more and more as I finish up my book and post chapters on my blog. Feel free to rip just about anything I write to shreds. I'd much rather it be vetted here when I can still edit and revise it than after it's published.

Newbie Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 22

Wrath, I would be more than happy to help with your book in whatever way I can. As for ordering Sylvester's or my book, I would recommend that you simply check them out of a library. What Sylvester and I write are academic books, published by university presses. We sell very few books, which is why they are so expensive. My book, for instance, has now sold just over 500 copies, and I have earned about $300.00. And believe it or not, that is exceptional for an academic book, which is why mine will be going into paperback shortly. Very few academic books go into paperback. The kind of book you can write, however, could make money, and instead of submitting yours to an academic press, you could submit it to a mainstream press, something I could not do. Your story is exactly what the larger public needs to hear, and given all the recent interest in African American atheists, your work would be timely.

Here's the question I have for you. Is your book an attempt to do a history of black atheism? Or, is it about your experience and philosophy as a black atheist? My suspicion is this: answering the second question would captivate audiences much more than the first question. You have an amazing story to tell. Your very way of being--boxer, black, atheist, intellectual--violates all the culture's stupid stereotypes. You are unique, and it is your uniqueness that would make for an interesting story. What would probably interest readers most is your struggle to come out as an atheist to your mother. By the way, Zora Neale Hurston's father was a prominent Baptist minister, and when she told him that she could not believe, he and a few of his friends let her have it (She explains all this in her autobiography, "Dust Tracks on a Road"). In "Black Boy," Richard Wright examines how difficult it was for him to reject belief because of his family's pressure on him. If you haven't read these two books, it would be worth your time to do so. This way you could see how other black atheists had the same struggles as you, but you could also indicate what is unique about your experience.

One last book recommendation: Anthony B. Pinn has edited a very important book titled: "By These Hands: A Documentary History of African American Humanism." In this book, he has selections from many African American atheists of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. This book is in paperback, it is reasonably priced, and it is very useful. I consult it constantly.

I am looking forward to more discussions on this topic.

Talk to you later,
michael

Newbie First Class Joined: Apr 26, 2008 Posts: 44

I agree with mlackey. You are seemingly unique Wrath. I don't know of a better all around package than yourself to help pursue the goal of the black man "saving the Earth".

Where else can one find a hugely dangerous black man who writes so well, has such great stories to tell and does it with such style and intelligence... and who also lists "100 Greatest Cum Shots II" [sic] as one of his favorite movies? I believe you have turned yourself in to a work of art. Art that would appeal to a large and diverse market. You are working out the message, you need the money and you are already supremely marketable. Message, Money and Marketing.

You should have a big publisher, a publicist and some good friends to help you. You are precisely the kind of person I suspect would be vital to the idea of my last long post.

Write your book as mlackey suggested. Tell a great story greatly. Write it with a screenplay in mind. Write the screenplay. Star in the movie. Tell the world your story and help change it.

It worked for Sylvester.

I wonder how Oprah would deal with you Wrath?

Newbie First Class Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 29

mlackey wrote:

Wrath, I would be more than happy to help with your book in whatever way I can. As for ordering Sylvester's or my book, I would recommend that you simply check them out of a library. What Sylvester and I write are academic books, published by university presses. We sell very few books, which is why they are so expensive. My book, for instance, has now sold just over 500 copies, and I have earned about $300.00. And believe it or not, that is exceptional for an academic book, which is why mine will be going into paperback shortly. Very few academic books go into paperback. The kind of book you can write, however, could make money, and instead of submitting yours to an academic press, you could submit it to a mainstream press, something I could not do. Your story is exactly what the larger public needs to hear, and given all the recent interest in African American atheists, your work would be timely.

Here's the question I have for you. Is your book an attempt to do a history of black atheism? Or, is it about your experience and philosophy as a black atheist? My suspicion is this: answering the second question would captivate audiences much more than the first question. You have an amazing story to tell. Your very way of being--boxer, black, atheist, intellectual--violates all the culture's stupid stereotypes. You are unique, and it is your uniqueness that would make for an interesting story. What would probably interest readers most is your struggle to come out as an atheist to your mother. By the way, Zora Neale Hurston's father was a prominent Baptist minister, and when she told him that she could not believe, he and a few of his friends let her have it (She explains all this in her autobiography, "Dust Tracks on a Road"). In "Black Boy," Richard Wright examines how difficult it was for him to reject belief because of his family's pressure on him. If you haven't read these two books, it would be worth your time to do so. This way you could see how other black atheists had the same struggles as you, but you could also indicate what is unique about your experience.

One last book recommendation: Anthony B. Pinn has edited a very important book titled: "By These Hands: A Documentary History of African American Humanism." In this book, he has selections from many African American atheists of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. This book is in paperback, it is reasonably priced, and it is very useful. I consult it constantly.

I am looking forward to more discussions on this topic.

Talk to you later,
michael

Thanks for the kind and complimentary words. The book I am writing is my own personal view of Christianity based on what I have seen and experienced growing up and of course what I have read. The first two chapters detail my own flight from faith and the ills I have seen done to black people by its addiction to superstition. After that I put my own spin on some of the popular arguments against Christianity.

Coincidentally, By These Hands was one of the first books I picked up that deals specifically with African Americans and religion.

Just Arrived Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 8

I posted the following on the Blacks and Religion postings. But as no one here but Mr. mlackey and Mr. Everbleed seem to be reading both topics, I put it here too.

Mr. Cygnus is on to something. But he didn’t go far enough. There would be a huge backlash to BALLSE but the worst backlash would come from the black church with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakan leading the charge.

I thought about BALLSE all day yesterday and I LIKE IT a lot.

But BALLSE could never happen. It’s too bad.

I checked out Mr. WrathJW’s blogs and stuff and Mr. Everbleed is right about him too. Mr. WrathJW is a work of art, a surreal one. He sure writes compellingly. I agree he is very “marketable”. But I notice Mr. WrathJW has not responded to BALLSE or Mr. Everbleed and probably won’t. Mr. WrathJW may be Afro centric. The moment “Americans who happen to be black” hear that BALLSE was the idea of an “American who happens to be white” it will fall stillborn. NIH.

It’s weird to come into this forum and read such interesting things. And there are only 5 or 6 of us participating. I never expected this.

But it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Mr. mlackey and Mr. Everbleed faded away from here as the reality hits them. Maybe Mr. Ralphellectual was right even if he was wrong. We’re doomed.

It’s too bad.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:53 am

Everbleed, are you familiar with the rationalresponders.com. They actually made the TV with their "blasphemy challenge." Quite a coup. They had some solid publicity for a while but have faded into normal bogdom. There is more activity there than here, but not better activity. For me they are a test case of why a big flashy ad campaign, designed to exploit the power of the meme, is not going to work.

I also think the problem is not as desparate as some of you seem to be thinking. I might be wrong about that but it is my impression. There have been numerous resurgences of superstition in the US that have been beaten back every time. I don't like to participate there as they hold to the idea that religion is a mental disorder and I justcan't condone that.

Suan Jacoby says, in The Age Of American Unreason, that this time is different, mainly because of the supremacy of the blogocracy which (let's admit it) is 99% psychotic. I don't entirely agree with her, but it's too early to tell. I'm holding out that this is just another in a long line of zealot abreactions.

Thus, I have an alternative plan which I and others have already begun to implement. Join a local atheism or rationalism or naturalism group. Either urge it to be activist or create within, by vote, an activist subset, to create and hopefully increase public awareness of your existence. Link up with other local similar organizations. Eventually, this could get to the point where localities will begin to join up. Our group is RRNA , which cross-pollenates to some extent with RAFT , a local chapter of WASH .

We brainstormed a number of things we could do for the community, some of which we have done such as donate science books to schools. Our biggest event yet was when we invited The Secular Coalition For America's lobbyist Lori Lipman Brown for her views on the visibility of secularism in Congress.

According to her more than 50 congressmen and women have said they are sympathetic to the Coalition's aims "but don't tell my voters." You can see right here that a real goal and an earmark of progress would be that one could be "openly atheist" on Capital Hill. Everyone with our interests should support the Secular Coalition.

The "we're here and we're atheist" movement is well underway, thanks to Hitchens and Dennet and Shermer etc. and I think what we mainly need to do is ride those coattails to maintain public consciousness of ourselves. That, and create a large network so that anyone looking can say without a doubt that there are a hell of a lot of us.

Wrath,
I am a fair editor as well, to tootle my own horn, and would definitely enjoy participating in 'vetting' your work. In reading your first 4 or 5 blogs, I had one serious critique that you might find useful. I'll email you if your address is available here or on your blog so you can decide for yourself.

****************************
I think this topic of blacks and religion, and the even large issue of certain groups and religion is well-worth discussing. I've asked myself many times: Why are there black Christians? Why are there Catholic women? Why are there Muslim women? Why are there Jewish Holocaust deniers?

Though there are exceptions, the atheist movement has throughout Western history been largely a white male phenomenon, precisely because it was the white males who set it up to get all of the advantages. Simply, they had the luxury of being atheist. We need to get these issues out in the open and look for some trickle down effect (trickling down from historical racial patriarchy, that is).

Resident Joined: Nov 20, 2002 Posts: 317 Location: USA

Some years ago at a party I let it be known that I was an atheist.
The person I was speaking to told me that he had never met an atheist before.
I told him I didn't believe him.
This was in New York.
A city of 8 million people, yet he had never met an atheist before.
Either he needs to get out more or we've been keeping a really low profile.
So I feel its my duty to let everyone know my stance on the god/s issue.
I don't buy it.
None of it.

The problem I find is that I keep having to remind the Christians in my midst that I'm not one of them.
Its as if they "forget" intentionally or they think I rally don't mean it.
Whatever the case.
I feel its time for non believers to grow a pair, and stop being so shy.

There is one question I have to ask however.
Are Blacks really more religious than other ethnic groups.
I have my doubts.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:59 am

Rage wrote:

Some years ago at a party I let it be known that I was an atheist.
The person I was speaking to told me that he had never met an atheist before.
I told him I didn't believe him.
This was in New York.
A city of 8 million people, yet he had never met an atheist before.
Either he needs to get out more or we've been keeping a really low profile.
So I feel its my duty to let everyone know my stance on the god/s issue.
I don't buy it.
None of it.

The problem I find is that I keep having to remind the Christians in my midst that I'm not one of them.
Its as if they "forget" intentionally or they think I rally don't mean it.
Whatever the case.
I feel its time for non believers to grow a pair, and stop being so shy.

There is one question I have to ask however.
Are Blacks really more religious than other ethnic groups.
I have my doubts.

I was going to mention this forgetfulness. For a lot of religious people, there are no atheists...literally. This is why we MUST be visible.

It's like someone in a roomful of American Indians saying that all Americans migrated from Europe. It's so obviously absurd, but that's the way a lot of people think.

Just Arrived Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 8

Mr. Kmisho,

I think Mr. Everbleed made it clear his plan required an organization of black elite. I am also not sure he is talking about big flashy ad campaigns either. Marketing isn't just about flashy campaigns. Mr. Everbleed has repeated what seems to be his mantra so many times, "message, money and marketing" I think you are putting the marketing before the message and the money Kmisho.

I re-read his posts quickly and I think maybe you are contemplating what Mr. Everbleed said through your own filter. Not that we don't all do that, but in this case you may have misunderstood him somewhat.

Thanks for the tips by the way. So much to read, so many places to go. I hope the RationalResponders is half as good as you folks.


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