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The Infidel Guy Show: Forums

infidelguy.com :: View topic - Atheist discrimination at my school.

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DogmaBites
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Joined: Jan 26, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Raskolnikov wrote:
And, I was wondering, isn't the constitution limited to only federal government? Wouldn't this case be under State/City government?

It's actually the 14th amendment that requires states to follow the US constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Quote:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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PJS
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

DogmaBites wrote:
Raskolnikov wrote:
And, I was wondering, isn't the constitution limited to only federal government? Wouldn't this case be under State/City government?

It's actually the 14th amendment that requires states to follow the US constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Quote:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Almost every pat of the Bill of Rights has been incorporated to the states via the 14th Amendment. There are a few exceptions-grand juries for example.
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ouini
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

Someone mentioned that the school is basically doing the students a favor by allowing clubs. This is kind of true, but once the school allows extra-curricular clubs, it can't start being arbitrary about which clubs it allows and which ones it doesn't.

In the past, when cases like this have gone to court (where student groups were allowed at school, but not a gay-lesbian or atheist group), the court has ruled repeatedly and very consistently that the schools either have to allow all clubs, or disallow all clubs. Picking and choosing was a no-no. These cases aren't too hard to find ... many of them can be found in the archives of the blog Dispatches from the Culture Wars .

Unfortunately, almost as consistently, the school then decides to disallow all clubs.

Brian37 wrote:
... The only way to defeat this attitude is not to demand the same venues, but to demand that all venues are neutral in regards to government.


I don't think I agree. Or rather, I think it's inherently NON-neutral to try to classify one type of student group (anything smacking of religion) as divisive, and other types as non-divisive, and then disallow the divisive ones.

I think at the heart of this problem is the rule that a teacher has to sponsor a group, and that teachers are free to not sponsor it if they don't want to. That pretty much flies in the face of the rulings that say clubs should be allowed or not allowed, but not arbitrarily vetoed.

Good luck.
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Raskolnikov
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

When I said 'constitution' I didn't mean the ammendments as well.

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DogmaBites
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Raskolnikov wrote:
When I said 'constitution' I didn't mean the ammendments as well.
There is only one constitution and it includes all amendments. If it didn't, slaves would still be counted as 3/5 of a person.

Amendments aren't separate pieces, they are changes to the whole. They just happen to be listed as a change log instead of having 20 odd different versions of the constitution.

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tomwright
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:22 am Reply with quote Back to top

DogmaBites wrote:
Raskolnikov wrote:
When I said 'constitution' I didn't mean the ammendments as well.
There is only one constitution and it includes all amendments. If it didn't, slaves would still be counted as 3/5 of a person.

Amendments aren't separate pieces, they are changes to the whole. They just happen to be listed as a change log instead of having 20 odd different versions of the constitution.


Too bad Whoopie Goldberg doesn't know that. Rolling Eyes
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