An Anarchist Revolution Or Nothing

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:27 am

Cygnus wrote:

No matter what system is in style, somebody will try to take advantage somehow.

Unless we develop or come by a system that doesn't lend it self to taking advantage. Any system that's primarily based upon competition (basically any capital driven model) will probably always encourage taking advantage.

Resident Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 307

Easier said than done. Even f it's down to the smallist level, people are still going to try to take advantage of something in some way.

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:17 am

Cygnus wrote:

Easier said than done. Even f it's down to the smallist level, people are still going to try to take advantage of something in some way.

Perhaps, unless there's no need to. Our current and past systems have encouraged this type of behavior, but mustn’t necessarily always be that way.

If some non-reciprocal system (or non-system) ever replaces our current capitally driven ones, I'm not sure if it'll be "done", perhaps more like it'll evolve.

Newbie First Class Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 48

MockingGods wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

Easier said than done. Even f it's down to the smallist level, people are still going to try to take advantage of something in some way.

Perhaps, unless there's no need to. Our current and past systems have encouraged this type of behavior, but mustn’t necessarily always be that way.

If some non-reciprocal system (or non-system) ever replaces our current capitally driven ones, I'm not sure if it'll be "done", perhaps more like it'll evolve.

Capitalism is the void. It's what will exist naturally when another system isn't being imposed. Perhaps communism or socialism are preferable to capitalism (I don't know), but they don't occur naturally. In todays modern reality an alternative to capitalism would require massive regualtion and oversite which certainally would not occur in the presence of anarchy. Most of us realize that human imperfection is not the result of government but rather government is the result of human imperfection. Sadly it's just true.

Resident Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 307

Yeah, not too sure how any anarchy will dissolve capitalism. Maybe anarcho-syndicalist communes, but those aren't really anarchies.

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:20 am

"Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least."

Tom Paine "Common Sense" 1776

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:12 pm

Newbie Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Dallas TX

MockingGods wrote:

Cygnus wrote:

No matter what system is in style, somebody will try to take advantage somehow.

Unless we develop or come by a system that doesn't lend it self to taking advantage. Any system that's primarily based upon competition (basically any capital driven model) will probably always encourage taking advantage.

I feel you. I actually have a friend who is trying to work on an atheist and scientific theory of anarchism.

Currently, however, he says that anarchism should be like a limit in calculus, something we can always get closer to, but perhaps never truly achieve.

Newbie Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Dallas TX

kmisho wrote:

"Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least."

Tom Paine "Common Sense" 1776

Thomas Paine was really the biggest bad ass of all time!

Newbie Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Dallas TX

Cygnus wrote:

Yeah, not too sure how any anarchy will dissolve capitalism. Maybe anarcho-syndicalist communes, but those aren't really anarchies.

Anarchy is as bad a word as atheist. Because it has both a negative version --> no ruler. And many positive versions like anarcho-syndicalism, or anarcho-communism, or anarcho-primitivism.

Its a huge mess.

Resident Joined: Mar 26, 2008 Posts: 307

Quote:

Anarchy is as bad a word as atheist.

How does that relate to atheism?

Newbie Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Dallas TX

Cygnus wrote:

Quote:

Anarchy is as bad a word as atheist.

How does that relate to atheism?

Well that depends on your question. Anarchism is as bad a word as atheism because they both connote only a negative.

Anarchism = no government.
Atheism=No God

Negatives have a lot of problems, for one they are cheap cognitive commitments.

Never forget that Stalinists, Objectivists, and Members of the Neo Nazi -Church of the Creator- are all atheists.

Please understand, that not every group which calls itself a church believes in God. Neo Nazi members of the Church of the Creator believe that white people are the only real creative force, and even though their ideas are retarded, they are atheists.

The same thing is true about anarchists.

Some are cool people who want to make the world a better place, some are vandals. But they are all equally anarchists.

So this is how its the same. Its a semantic problem.

Though I think its a really big one.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:06 am

MrSmith wrote:

Capitalism is the void. It's what will exist naturally when another system isn't being imposed

As long as our social structures are built upon the ideology of reciprocation, I tend to agree. We do however have other natural traits, like empathy, which tends to void our basic reciprocal nature. I think it’s possible, but obviously not certain, we can socially move beyond this basic nature. I’ve a suspicion we actually do better (relatively speaking) without it.

Newbie Joined: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 11 Location: Dallas TX

MockingGods wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

Capitalism is the void. It's what will exist naturally when another system isn't being imposed

As long as our social structures are built upon the ideology of reciprocation, I tend to agree. We do however have other natural traits, like empathy, which tends to void our basic reciprocal nature. I think it’s possible, but obviously not certain, we can socially move beyond this basic nature. I’ve a suspicion we actually do better (relatively speaking) without it.

thats exactly what my anarchist buddy tells me.

I hope that you are right!

Newbie First Class Joined: Mar 29, 2008 Posts: 48

MockingGods wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

Capitalism is the void. It's what will exist naturally when another system isn't being imposed

As long as our social structures are built upon the ideology of reciprocation, I tend to agree. We do however have other natural traits, like empathy, which tends to void our basic reciprocal nature. I think it’s possible, but obviously not certain, we can socially move beyond this basic nature. I’ve a suspicion we actually do better (relatively speaking) without it.

My point was simply that I do not believe for a second that capitalism is imposed upon us. For good or bad it's what developed once we "evolved" beyond an agrarian/feudal economy. I'm not suggesting that capitalism is the ideal(or even good), but rather it's what exist when government isn't pushing another economic model upon us. I just don't believe that anarchy would result in the end of capitalism. If anything capitalism would become ultra lazi fair if government just dissappeared. There may be examples of non-reciprical small scale tribal economies, but I haven't seen anything that suggests we would just stop being capitalistic naturally.


Create an account	Home · Articles · Downloads · Video Library · Forums · Chat Room · aStore