An Anarchist Revolution Or Nothing

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:51 am

FMJ wrote:

But my argument is that if you removed the possibility to profit from these efforts you simply would not see the innovations.

We would still want and need stuff whether or not there was a "profit" motive for making it. You're point is well taken though. I've often questioned how fast we would have progressed without the 'greed' component driving it.

Quote:

I don't see how it could be the same because you would reduce the possibility for individuals to obtain monopoly privilege. IP is essentially something we all pay for, its' socialized, but it benefits the few. These inventors patents often extend perversely beyond the costs they incur. Because of its' socialist nature its' very difficult for us to accurately measure the benefits of somebody holding a patent for extended periods. We pay for it no doubt via taxation but can you assess the dollar per dollar value you get from it ?

My argument doesn't revolved around the patent process. It involves what happens prior to the patent process, in the R@D phase. I tend to agree with what I think your position on patents is. However, by the same token, doing away with the ability to patent might tend to lessen R@D because it would remove certain capital return protections.

The Learned Joined: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 109

MockingGods wrote:

FMJ wrote:

But my argument is that if you removed the possibility to profit from these efforts you simply would not see the innovations.

We would still want and need stuff whether or not there was a "profit" motive for making it. You're point is well taken though. I've often questioned how fast we would have progressed without the 'greed' component driving it.

I must take issue with the way you use the term profit. If somebody gets something they need they are essentially profiting; a profit is simply a benefit. So if people are getting stuff they need they are essentially profiting; if nobody else is profiting to supply this need then somebody is eating the cost of this proactive imposition. This is the very core outcome of socialism I oppose, that people can be made slaves to other people or that people will provide benefits to other people while obtaining no benefit of doing so.

Profits are not something invented after the industrial revolution to create class stratification or just exploit the poor. Profits exist long before humans ever did. Evolutionary ecology would just use the term “fitness” in replace of profits. Indeed evolutionary biology and optimality analysis incorporate the concept of currency into the study of biological systems. There are direct and indirect forms of currency, as there are costs. By analyzing the costs and benefits or profits and losses experienced by particular experimental subjects evolutionary biologists can derive models of what is the optimal pattern of organism resource use in a particular scenario. Organisms that use their resources inefficiently are obviously purged. Nature is in this sense a capitalist. Our societal methodology attempts to depart from this turning man into an agent of nature. That would, of course, be fine if man was omnipotent and absolutely benevolent but man is not. Nature uses trial-and-error simply because it is pragmatic. I’m not advocating social Darwinism, but I am advocating that institutions that utilize resources unwisely be punished for it. The only way I see that we can do this is via a market system that imparts some degree of objectivity in its methodology. Socialism is forced to depend on the will of elites or democracy which may have no correspondence with metaphysical truths like cause-and-effect, or shortages of supply.

MockingGods wrote:

FMJ wrote:

I don't see how it could be the same because you would reduce the possibility for individuals to obtain monopoly privilege. IP is essentially something we all pay for, its' socialized, but it benefits the few. These inventors patents often extend perversely beyond the costs they incur. Because of its' socialist nature its' very difficult for us to accurately measure the benefits of somebody holding a patent for extended periods. We pay for it no doubt via taxation but can you assess the dollar per dollar value you get from it ?

My argument doesn't revolved around the patent process. It involves what happens prior to the patent process, in the R@D phase. I tend to agree with what I think your position on patents is. However, by the same token, doing away with the ability to patent might tend to lessen R@D because it would remove certain capital return protections.

I would think that when the cost to protect intellectual designs is no longer socialized but shouldered by those that desire to obtain rents from their designs they will find other ways to monetize and protect their stuff. Similar to how music piracy exposed music for what it is: a public good; its' very difficult to exclude people from consuming it and production of additional units has practically zero cost. Yet despite that, performers like Rezner and Gaga have found, via clever entrepreneurship, a way to maintain profitability. Otherwise our debate is about the conservatism of a particular market paradigm. We are debating that this particular paradigm is the most optimal method. This is market speculation like anything else and if we can make such definitive claims then we should be able to apply our speculative skill to the corn futures market or non-export durables in Singapore, thus we wouldn't need a market ever because at all moments in time we would know what is the best way to produce everything from pens to constructing and running vacation resorts.

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm still hoping to get caught up on this chat – I find myself a bit busy these days, so wish me luck.

A nice little take on Marx, if you are interested. Somewhat related. Cheers.

The Learned Joined: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 109

DigitalAtheist wrote:

I'm still hoping to get caught up on this chat – I find myself a bit busy these days, so wish me luck.

A nice little take on Marx, if you are interested. Somewhat related. Cheers.

All we are really talking about is the "knowledge problem" and intellectual property right now.

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:23 am

DigitalAtheist wrote:

I'm still hoping to get caught up on this chat – I find myself a bit busy these days, so wish me luck.

A nice little take on Marx, if you are interested. Somewhat related. Cheers.

That's a very interesting discussion on Marxism, thanks for linking it. At about the 41 minute mark the professor said something that I've been saying for a very long time. When ask what he believed he basically said he wanted a world without competition and dependant on cooperation instead. I'm always surprised when someone of relatively high intelligence has thoughts similar to mine. The competition aspect of monetary driven, market based systems is something that has always bothered me. It is my opinion it's this aspect that drives such practices as "trade secrets", which in turn would tend to retard our technological advancement.

Here's wishing you luck Very Happy

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:55 pm

MockingGods wrote:

When ask what he believed he basically said he wanted a world without competition and dependant on cooperation instead.

… I caught that, a bit – its a big part of why I posted it here.

Thanks for the wishes, I hope to rejoin this chat in a few days.

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:39 pm

DigitalAtheist wrote:

MockingGods wrote:

When ask what he believed he basically said he wanted a world without competition and dependant on cooperation instead.

… I caught that, a bit – its a big part of why I posted it here.

Thanks for the wishes, I hope to rejoin this chat in a few days.

He also described Marxism as a "methodology" with an implied meaning that it should be seen as a tool for examining other economic models, but not a model in and of itself. It seems I need to read some Marx.

The Learned Joined: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 109

MockingGods wrote:

DigitalAtheist wrote:

MockingGods wrote:

When ask what he believed he basically said he wanted a world without competition and dependant on cooperation instead.

… I caught that, a bit – its a big part of why I posted it here.

Thanks for the wishes, I hope to rejoin this chat in a few days.

He also described Marxism as a "methodology" with an implied meaning that it should be seen as a tool for examining other economic models, but not a model in and of itself. It seems I need to read some Marx.

I think what he means is, like psychoanalysis, marxism is a method of explaining reality and ultimately, if utilized correctly, predicted outcomes. This stems around Marx's notion of conflict theory which, as a student of evolutionary biology, i have a great deal of agreement with with a caveat; conflict theory argues that particular economic classes have a "class interest" which all share, (i don't believe classes are in conflict but all individuals). Marx says the bourgeois align with other bourgeois and the proletariat with other proletariat. Knowing this we can extrapolate how agents within the political economy will behave and dialectically(a Socratic/Hegelian concept) exploitation will occur till the point a workers revolution will manifest which will result in a final dictatorship of the proletariat. This would be the prediction of "scientific socialism".

Karl Popper a student avid supporter of marxism later abandoned it because he did not believe it was scientific as it cannot be fallsified like Einstein's theory of relativity could; A scientific theory makes specific predictions and if they don't manifest you reject it, where as marxism makes specific predictions -- the fall of capitalism -- and if that doesn't materialize you explain it away and preserve the theory -- the modern welfare state, labour unions, or an increasing middle class saved capitalism. Popper's own methodology to defining science is flawed because it seems you cannot control for everything within your scientific theories, the chain of events must be taken as a whole so identifying the causal variable is impossible, this is hard to conceive of because we do this all teh time, but fundamentally we cannot limit or experiments to 1 thing and eliminate all outside influences, we must take everything as a whole. There are language problems as your theories are fundamentally based on sense data which is linked to language. These later problems are demonstrated by W.V.O Quine. Quines notion is that our theories face a tribunal of not just individual senses but of senses of all aggregated. Quine would advocate for a unification of empiricism and analytical rationalism.

Weber expanded on Marx editing his class analysis to include not jsut wealth but prestige and power. Weber seems more relevant then Marx here as there are clearly individuals with power that don't have much wealth. Weber later abandoned socialism after witnessing the dehumanizing bureaucracy of the soviet state and how it stoically cannibalized it's own citizens. Weber realized that political systems that granted to much power to the state woudl just yeild a political class and class warfare would happen this way without the need for a market to distribute power. Modern public choice economics seems to take Weber's basis thesis and graft it into a mathematical framework to model corruption moral hazard and basically the framework of how a state operates like a market ( Tullock lotteries, rent seeking activity etc).

Anyway we can actually look to Kolko to disprove Marx empirically in his historical analysis. Kolko says' so himself:

Page 7

Marx has himself been criticized largely for not making a distinction between mercantilism(controlled capitalism) and an actual laissez faire(chaotic un-managed) system. Sociologically Marx was right with regards to power tending to become more and more centralized(when you have a state), but his criticisms of an anarchic market seem to be disproved by Kolko empirically, public choice theorists theoretically, and Austrian economists in the analytic fashion of Mises's praxeology. along with Rothbard we might make the case that when market intervention happens we can only say with certainty one party benefits, the aggressor ( the state) rather then the two individuals that desired to initiate the exchange in the first place. In this sense , analytically we could say state invention benefits a only 1 person while markets will benefit 2. So socialism, synthetic a priori, is bad. While marx argues that the state is fundamentally controlled by the bourgeois, and i agree with this and so does Kolko, we come to different conclusions. The market – Free market -- actually tends to disrupt power and result in a movement toward a more equitable society while state control of market outcomes, even to a marginal degree, provide the rich additional choice options they would not have in a free market. This is not accepted by most people on the planet however and in fairness who the hell really enjoys studying the political economy?

The left believe the state can be captured by the meekest of us, modern voter theory suggests that it cannot the more control that is transferred over to the state to alter market outcomes to the benefit of all the more power you grant those with wealth; democracy paradoxically exacerbates the problem.

Link

The Learned Joined: Jun 15, 2005 Posts: 120

The Global General Strike
A Universal Insurrection
Total Social Revolution
A logical development – A natural objective advancement – A world reality – The beginning of the end of capitalism and the state.

Why are the people always obedient, how can humanity tolerates it’s oppression and exploitation for so long, is this condition a permanent one, or it might change? How come humanity was never able to free it self from the never ending slavery in every shape and form? How come people can tolerate this total impoverishment for so long without rebelling and controlling their own destiny?

It is tragic that billions of people cannot free themselves from the yoke of humiliation and indignity for millenniums, it is inconceivable that with so many slaves and oppressed, submission and obedience remain the order of the day.

When will humanity free itself from this pain and anguish, constant labor with little returns, barely enough for bare survival? When will the people be free of their daily torture and misery which results from the politico-economical system that they have failed to destroy?

The most important question that should be asked and in which the answer to this question is decisive for the free future of wo/man kind. For how long will the people of this planet continue to support and elect their leaders and governors?

When will the people inhabiting this states and classes refuse and reject their authorities and dismantle the hierarchies? Only when the conscious level of the masses raises to a certain point, a global rebellion is initiated. Today the situation of the majority is 2/3 of the way on the scale of consciousness; i.e. there is a third of the way to go - to reach this full consciousness which necessary for the social- transformation of society from neo-slavery to communist, individualist anarchy.

Can a revolutionary anarchist fasten the process of mass emancipation, the answer is a clear yes. If it was not for the intensive activity of anarchist in modern his-story, the conscious level of the people would have been much less then today level.
The objective historical conditions on their own are incapable of advancing the human brain to that conscious level which is required for the liberation of humanity from its varied parasites.

It is really the symbiosis of the objective conditions and the intervention of anarchists in the social arena that matters. The time is coming for the event to take place, it is in the near future. The objective law-govern historical conditions are ripe and really now it is the roll of an anarchist intensification for bringing about an immediate effect from the people. We desire a revolution and they should too.

Spartacus anarchus

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:49 pm

spartacus wrote:

The Global General Strike
A Universal Insurrection
Total Social Revolution
A logical development – A natural objective advancement – A world reality – The beginning of the end of capitalism and the state.

Why are the people always obedient, how can humanity tolerates it’s oppression and exploitation for so long, is this condition a permanent one, or it might change?

Because they never engage in dialog, preferring the sound of their own voices.

How come humanity was never able to free it self from the never ending slavery in every shape and form?

Because they never engage in dialog, preferring the sound of their own voices.

How come people can tolerate this total impoverishment for so long without rebelling and controlling their own destiny?

Because they never engage in dialog, preferring the sound of their own voices.

It is tragic that billions of people cannot free themselves from the yoke of humiliation and indignity for millenniums, it is inconceivable that with so many slaves and oppressed, submission and obedience remain the order of the day.

When will humanity free itself from this pain and anguish, constant labor with little returns, barely enough for bare survival?

When they engage in dialog.

When will the people be free of their daily torture and misery which results from the politico-economical system that they have failed to destroy?

When they engage in dialog.

The most important question that should be asked and in which the answer to this question is decisive for the free future of wo/man kind. For how long will the people of this planet continue to support and elect their leaders and governors?

Until they engage in dialog.

When will the people inhabiting this states and classes refuse and reject their authorities and dismantle the hierarchies?
Only when the conscious level of the masses raises to a certain point, a global rebellion is initiated.

This conscious level cannot be reached without dialog.

Today the situation of the majority is 2/3 of the way on the scale of consciousness; i.e. there is a third of the way to go - to reach this full consciousness which necessary for the social- transformation of society from neo-slavery to communist, individualist anarchy.

Yes, this is done thru dialog.

Can a revolutionary anarchist fasten (you mean 'hasten') the process of mass emancipation, the answer is a clear yes. If it was not for the intensive activity of anarchist in modern his-story, the conscious level of the people would have been much less then today level.

The intense 'activity' of modern anarchists seems to consist of rambling monologs, with no attempt made to engage in dialog with others.
Others who might well hasten the process of mass emancipation. The conscious level of the people would be much greater and the Global General Strike/Universal Insurrection/Total Social Revolution that much nearer if certain so-called intensely active anarchists actually engage in dialog.

The objective historical conditions on their own are incapable of advancing the human brain to that conscious level which is required for the liberation of humanity from its varied parasites.

Rambling monologs on their own are incapable of advancing the human brain to that conscious level which is required for the liberation of humanity from it's various parasites.

It is really the symbiosis of the objective conditions and the intervention of anarchists in the social arena that matters.

Any kind of symbiosis requires interaction between two or more parties. Monologs are not interaction and therefore do nothing to change anything about society.
How can an anarchist intervene in the social arena if all they do is write rambling monologs?
Intervention requires interaction. The prime medium for interaction between humans is dialog. Think about it!

The time is coming for the event to take place, it is in the near future. The objective law-govern historical conditions are ripe and really now it is the roll of an anarchist intensification for bringing about an immediate effect from the people. We * desire a revolution and they should too.

How can a revolution come about if those who want it do not communicate with anyone else?

Spartacus anarchus

No! Don't talk to me. I'm only drawing attention to how your monologs are actually preventing the revolution from happening in the near future. Monologs achieve nothing!
Talk to those who've tried and failed to engage you in dialog many times... MockingGods, DigitalAtheist, FullMentalJackpot, etc.

* We?
We desire a revolution? Who's we? If there's more than one anarchist involved in bringing about this global revolution, I assume they must communicate their aims and ideals? Or is anarchy simply a global state of non-communication, where individuals lead totally separate lives, reading each other's monologs, but never engaging in dialog about anything?
Rolling Eyes

Why do I even bother? (Shrugs.) Sparty'll be back in a while to carry on monologging his way to nowhere; changing nothing, doing nothing, amounting to nothing.

BAA.

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:43 pm

spartacus wrote:

THE SILENT VOLCANO
This is an open scenario – the year 2008 – the coming anarchic revolt – anti-capitalist, anti-state, anti-class and the deteriorating condition of humanity.
Capitalism is war of all against all, killing the world and everything on it for sheer profits and megalomania.
The situation of anarchists today and the many anarchic brands they belong to.
The end of the concept of organization starts now.
The fashionable noble prize winning game theory is short lived.
The anarchist theory is for all.
The ending of capital is on the horizon.
The internet user/surfer, his mentality and how his mind operates.
The majority are not anarchists.
Class analysis - class consciousness - class struggle – anarchic liberation.
There is more revolutionary anarchists today.
The future of humanity is anarchy.
Christian capitalism - Muslim capitalism - Jewish capitalism - Buddhist capitalism - Communist capitalism - Atheist capitalism.
The fascist role of the USA and Israel in modern times in the new image of imperialist capitalism.
Anti–capitalist Anti-state Anarchism
Capitalism must go; it must be destroyed before it destroys us. Most people on earth suffer terribly daily from this capitalist system. The industrial revolution and then the technological revolution made it possible for capitalism to totally dominate the whole planet and its populace.
Contemporary capitalism has invaded every aspect of everyone’s life. To achieve freedom by the people, capitalism and the state and religions must go and be terminated and replaced instantly with an anarchic society free of authority.
We don’t need few billionaires whilst billions of individuals are hungry and billions enslaved. We don’t need billionaires and more millionaires when 98% of the world’s population lives below poverty level, the majority suffer in their daily hardship. The next stage these billionaires turn into zillionaires and we will suffer even more becoming more exploited and further impoverished.
The capitalist system is designed for one purpose only – to allow the few get everything and the rest to get nothing but hardship and suffering and bear existence. Capitalism makes sure that the rich will always get richer and you remain the servant of their prosperity i.e., the wealth that is made upon your shoulder. Whilst they get richer we get instead more oppression, more poverty and mass intimidation.
Classes must fall and be dismantled and replaced by equality and real freedom for all. Therefore by destroying capitalism and the state we destroy the enemy number one of life and of humanity. By ending capitalism we free humanity and liberate the whole people of the world, so that they can continue living free of torture and pain, without wars and without ever being exploited again.
Capitalism is reaching its own natural end, its dying on its anarcho-revolutionary death bed awaiting its final breath on the eve of the anarcho-social revolution. For the first time in human history the objective conditions are ripe and ready for the abolition of capitalism and its state. Capitalism will become a thing of the past, despised and forgotten.
We don’t need a money system in a class society run by capital and the state, because we see what it does to us and to the rest of humanity, we experience daily the ferocious effects of a system that is based on money, value, and the private ownership of the social means of production, i.e., robbing the people and then selling them back the loot. We can see what the western civilization has done to nature and to humanity everywhere now it is also polluting the outer space.
How can anyone live in a world where there are few billionaires and billions of starving people? War and poverty is the health of the state and capitalism. Capitalism is a permanent war launched for profit on the people everywhere. People everywhere are daily sacrificed for capital’s lust and imperial greed. Millions upon millions die every year unnecessarily.
Volcanic Eruption
A social revolution is in the making, the conscious anarchist is there already navigating the objective development discretely from below and orientating the anarcho-revolutionary process to its natural restart.
You cannot be free and happy in a terribly alienated society; you cannot be creative in an alienated world nor know how to live in a monotonous capital’s consumption mechanism. You will not be able to experience the real meaning of existence and living without negating the dialectics of capital and the state.
Be ready for the first anarchic revolution – Its coming your way – Take part in a world of liberation and mutual happiness.
The Way is Anarchy – the Solution is Equity
Spartacus Anarchus

Q. Which audience are Sporadickus' monologs intended for?
A. Himself.

Q. Why is this?
A. Because he tries very hard indeed not to talk to anyone else.

Q. Why won't we talk to anyone else?
A. We don't know! He won't explain anything, he won't answer any questions or do anything else - he just posts his monologs.

Q. When did he start monologging this forum?
A. The above quote is from Jan 29, 2008 - so that's two years, four months and some days of the same unexplained, incomprehensible one-way traffic.

Q. Will he carry on ignoring everyone and continue monologging?
A. Almost certainly. Some members come and go, but you can rely on Sporadickus (Old Faithful) Anarchus to carry on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and ...

Q. Why does he do this?
A. Who knows? Who cares?

Q. Is the global Anarchist Revolution any nearer because of his monologs?
A. It might be nearer, but he's got nothing to do with it being any closer or further away. His effect on anything is a big, fat Zero!

Q. Is there any point in messaging him privately?
A. No. He never answers anything.

Q. Could he just be a machine that posts these monologs from time to time?
A. Quite likely. Sadly, there's no way to find out for sure, because he never responds to anything!

Q. Could he be a capitalist stooge who's broadcasting misinformation to slow up the anarchist revolution?
A. Who knows? Who cares?

Q. Does he like Stargate Universe?
A. No! That's impossible! Nobody could actually like that crap!

The Learned Joined: Jun 15, 2005 Posts: 120

This monolog is devoted to my friend who wants a communication, because it seems he knows little about the simultaneous and spontaneous meta-conscious coordination and instant cooperation amongst those high leveled emancipated individuals. But sooner or later dear friend LeftAgainReligion you will be communicated one way or another.

Capitalism as a system of slave – management

A trap for humanity

Capitalism and the state system guarantees the rich ruling minority that the rest of humanity remain obedient and poor and incapable of liberating itself from the trap of poverty and hardship and permanent oppression.
Capitalism as such with its system of control, exploitation and punishment is kept and maintained by an organized violence and system terrorism to subdue any anyone who dares even think of liberation and life in dignity.

Capitalism with its varied fascistic institutions forces the majority of the world population into a life of misery and permanent suffering. Well, this has to be stopped and the only way known to humanity to get rid of this yoke of material terrorism with its lackeys, is a world-wide anarcho-social revolution, navigated and orientated but the meta-theory of communist individualist anarchy.

If this global anarchist revolution will not take place and soon, humanity shall remain as slaves for as long as capitalism and the state lasts. This means that billions upon billions will suffer daily and all of their lives and for generations to come as is the case from the dawn of civilization. But really we can terminate this universal mayhem once and for good.

We can destroy capitalism and its infrastructure with one mighty blow, and an anarcho-revolutionary knock-out, to a system that is torturing humanity on an hourly basis, tormenting and terrorizing the majority of the population constantly. Our only hope is the termination of the master - servant social relation and building instead a world that exists without the past ills and an organizational anti-human primitiveness.

No more poverty, no more unnecessary suffering and anguish. It is time to change the world and change it forever, so we can live in dignity and happiness. Any one who agrees and accepts capitalism and its organization of class war is an accomplice to this crime against humanity and they will have to expect the same treatment of rejection during the change.

Spartacus anarchus

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:57 pm

To Sparty...I wrote this (quoted below) on Saturday 19th June.

No! Don't talk to me. I'm only drawing attention to how your monologs are actually preventing the revolution from happening in the near future. Monologs achieve nothing!
Talk to those who've tried and failed to engage you in dialog many times... MockingGods, DigitalAtheist, FullMentalJackpot, etc.

BAA.[/quote]

There's no point in monologging me - I won't reply to you. I've told you that before. Start a dialog with anyone except me.

Why not try bringing about your revolution by persuading others via dialog? Others in this case being those mentioned in my quote. Why not try answering their questions? Who knows? The revolution might come that bit quicker if you persuade others to join your cause.

Please note that I didn't bother to read any of your reply and I won't read anything you write to me.
I'm just trying to encourage you to do what all humans do best - communicate. If you won't communicate you might as well be a community of one. Is that the kind of anarchy you want?

No! Don't answer that. Don't answer me. Start up a dialog with others. Capiche?

BAA.

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:48 am

Here's something for MockingGods, DigitalAthiest, FullMentalJackpot and anyone else to consider.

Please look at the portion of Sparty's last message that I've highlighted in red.

Apparently I know little about the... simultaneous and spontaneous meta-conscious coordination and instant cooperation amongst certain high leveled individuals.

WTF!?? Shocked

Does this sound like telepathy to you?

Or is it simply an untestable, unverifiable religious belief?

Or maybe quantum action-at-a-distance?

Certain individuals can simultaneously coordinate their thoughts and activities and cooperate in a unified way, thru some kind of meta-conscious mind state?
Presumably then, other individuals (here, meaning everyone else - including us dumb schmucks) can't do these things and don't have the required meta-consciousness?
Why would anarchists want to be unified into anything, anyway?
Surely individualism is the highest form of anarchy?

If you want coordination, why not just use a phone?

Anyway, what's all this 'high-leveled individuals' crap got to do with anarchy?
I thought there were no levels, hierarchys or elites in an anarchy.

So elitism is necessary to bring about anarchy?

Surely this is a joke?

Or just a cynical way for Sparty to feel superior to everyone else?
After all, if nobody but these high-levelled individuals (no doubt including Mr.Anarchus) is aware of the state of progress towards the revolution, then nobody else can check and verify his claims that it really is any closer. You'd have to be a high-levelled individual with meta-consciousness to do that, wouldn't you?

So us low-levelled folks just have to rely on what the high-levelled folks say and take it on faith that it's true. Sound familiar?
Yep! It's just religious authority, all over again. Supernatural elitism dressed up as social justice.
A new twist on the oldest con-game of them all.

spartacus wrote:

This monolog is devoted to my friend who wants a communication, because it seems he knows little about the simultaneous and spontaneous meta-conscious coordination and instant cooperation amongst those high leveled emancipated individuals. But sooner or later dear friend LeftAgainReligion you will be communicated one way or another.

Capitalism as a system of slave – management
A trap for humanity
Capitalism and the state system guarantees the rich ruling minority that the rest of humanity remain obedient and poor and incapable of liberating itself from the trap of poverty and hardship and permanent oppression.
Capitalism as such with its system of control, exploitation and punishment is kept and maintained by an organized violence and system terrorism to subdue any anyone who dares even think of liberation and life in dignity.
Capitalism with its varied fascistic institutions forces the majority of the world population into a life of misery and permanent suffering. Well, this has to be stopped and the only way known to humanity to get rid of this yoke of material terrorism with its lackeys, is a world-wide anarcho-social revolution, navigated and orientated but the meta-theory of communist individualist anarchy.
If this global anarchist revolution will not take place and soon, humanity shall remain as slaves for as long as capitalism and the state lasts. This means that billions upon billions will suffer daily and all of their lives and for generations to come as is the case from the dawn of civilization. But really we can terminate this universal mayhem once and for good.
We can destroy capitalism and its infrastructure with one mighty blow, and an anarcho-revolutionary knock-out, to a system that is torturing humanity on an hourly basis, tormenting and terrorizing the majority of the population constantly. Our only hope is the termination of the master - servant social relation and building instead a world that exists without the past ills and an organizational anti-human primitiveness.
No more poverty, no more unnecessary suffering and anguish. It is time to change the world and change it forever, so we can live in dignity and happiness. Any one who agrees and accepts capitalism and its organization of class war is an accomplice to this crime against humanity and they will have to expect the same treatment of rejection during the change.
Spartacus anarchus

Oh btw Sparty, this message isn't for you. You and I aren't communicating, remember?

No, I'm voicing my criticisms of your religious, elitisit belief system to other members of this forum - those who actually engage in dialog.

BAA.

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:25 pm

Good catch there BAA Cool


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