We all worship the same god

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:20 pm

The most essential Islamic myth.

If Allah is the same god as the Jewish and christian god, why are the Muslims persecuting Christians and Jews (among Buddhist, Hindus, Zoroastrians etc) since 622 CE till the end of time?
The reason why Muslims hate Jews and Christians, because they would not accept Muhammad's call to Islam.
Why would the Jews not accept Allah [Islam] in Makka when Mohammad first invited them to? If Allah was the same god as theirs, they should have had no objection.

Allah was a minor pagan stone god among the 360 other stone idols in the Kaaba. (Incidentally, it is still in the Kaaba to this day). Pre Islamic Pagan Customs are still practiced today by Muslims.

Quote:

Allah's name wasn't mentioned in the first Qur'an surah. In fact, Muhammad's god remained an unnamed "Lord" throughout the first seventeen Qur'an revelations. When the Lord was finally identified, his name was Ar-Rahman. It's curious then that this crucial Islamic Hadith elected to contradict the Qur'an and call god Allah. Equally curious, why did Muhammad's wife, the pagan Khadija, swear by Allah when the god who bore that name was one of many rock idols? The answers are simple, different, and revealing. Aisha, the source of this Hadith, didn't reveal it until after the prophet's death - long after Ar-Rahman's name had been incorporated into Allah's character. As for Khadija, Allah held the keys to something she and her husband coveted.

The accounts of what happened this night are consistently inconsistent. And while that's bad as it relates to creation and patriarchs, those were events from another time, another people, another place, and another religion. Now Muslims are without excuse. Islam began in their midst, on their watch, and through their clan. We aren't dealing with events that occurred two to four thousand years B.C. This is 610 A.D. Contradiction is now condemning, for it forces us to recognize that all Islamic scripture was preserved in like fashion - through oral transmission. If these recollections aren't reliable, nothing is.

[...]

Quote:

Arabic, like Hebrew before it, is a Semitic language. In Hebrew, "el," was the word for god - lower case "g" - as in idols. Elohiym was used with the article to convey "God" with a capital "G." In Arabic, "el" became "il." Then, over time, Arabs derived a secondary word for god, "ilah." With "al" being the Arabic word for "the," Muslims would have us believe that "Allah" is a contraction of "al" and "ilah." But the first pillar of Islam contradicts this claim when it says: "There is no ilah but Allah." If "Allah" were the Arabic word for god it would have been written: "There is no allah but Allah. Moreover, the Qur'an itself uses "Ilah" when Allah claims to be "the God of Abraham" (Qur'an 2:132). And that ends the debate because the only way Muslims can claim Allah, not Ilah, is the Arabic word for "God" is for the Qur'an to be errant or for its author to be either ignorant or deceitful. Further, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Islamic traditions like the one we just reviewed that confirm that Allah was the name of a well-known pagan deity (at least in Mecca). Their own scriptures profess that Allah had an ignominious rule as a Meccan rock idol centuries before he was transformed from god to God, from an ilah to Allah. All of which serves to destroy the most essential Islamic myth: "We all worship the same God ."

source

Who is Allah?

The Learned Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 120

One only needs to compare the nature and characteristics of Allah with the god/s mentioned in the bible see they are different deities.

Newbie First Class Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 44

I can't see how we can tell the difference from one invisible entity to another.
They both seem to be genocidal and bloodthirsty.
So what are the differences Norm?

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:32 am

The difference is obvious.

Islam still kills, and terrorises the infidel in large numbers. Others have stopped.

Newbie First Class Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 44

So those Christian missiles that have been killing civilillans in Iraq and elsewhere are choke full of Christian love.
Did Jesus say turn the other cheek but missiles are accepted.
I guess it is a matter of interpretation.
Thanks for clearing it up, now I get it.....?
So.....When Christians kill in the name of their god it is called Love and when the Isamic do the same it is called Terrorism.

So.. in other words
If a bomb is flown in and the murderer can safely fly away, that's justified.
But if the murderer walks in with the bomb and dies with the bomb, that is is not justified.

The obvious is as clear as mud.

The terrorist that can have a beer after his massacre serves a god with a different motive.

Crystal!

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:06 pm

Quote:

So those Christian missiles that have been killing civilillans in Iraq and elsewhere are choke full of Christian love.
Did Jesus say turn the other cheek but missiles are accepted.
I guess it is a matter of interpretation.
Thanks for clearing it up, now I get it.....?
So.....When Christians kill in the name of their god it is called Love and when the Isamic do the same it is called Terrorism.

Does the American or any other non Muslim soldier screams "in the name of Jesus!" and holds up the bible on the battlefield, and points to the relevant verses to justify his killings?

Do priests, pastors in the church actually command soldiers of Jesus to go and kill any non Christians (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, Shintos etc.) in the name of the almighty?

Do tell. Evidence would be useful.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9384

Norm_uk wrote:

One only needs to compare the nature and characteristics of Allah with the god/s mentioned in the bible see they are different deities.

No they are not in ONE extremely important aspect. BOTH gods have a "My way or the highway(burn in hell if you don't kiss my ass). The are both dictatorial characters.

And why is it that the Koran infuses (blatantly rips off the OT and NT, by mentioning characters such as ADAM AND EVE and Abraham and even Jesus(not as a god, but merely a prophet)?

This what newer religions did in ancient times, they would cherry pick old stories and infuse them into a new religion to draw people away from the older ones.

Look, you can spend googles of ages pointing out the differences but that MISSES the point that newer religions DON'T start in a vacuum. The are a result of a conglomeration of prior motifs and prior cultures.

Competition in religion is no different than competition in big business. Coke vs Pepsi. Coke comes out with a cherry soda and Pepsi looks at it and says, |"I like that idea. Lets come up with our own version, give it a different taste, different color can and different name. Any person claiming that their god is original is like saying that Coke is the first beverage because it's can is red.

I hate this distraction on "details" which misses the important reality that religion can only come from prior motifs that existed before the newer versions.

Ideas like purity and sacrifice and "chosen people" existed in a variety of polytheistic cultures long before the modern monotheism ever took place. The Koran is merely a rip off of the OT just as Christianity is merely a spin off of the Hebrews, otherwise why even mention the OT?

The reason these 3 religions are popular today is not because of a real being, but for the same reason people drink Coke and Pepsi, successful marketing.

Newbie First Class Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 44

pr126 wrote:

Quote:

So those Christian missiles that have been killing civilillans in Iraq and elsewhere are choke full of Christian love.
Did Jesus say turn the other cheek but missiles are accepted.
I guess it is a matter of interpretation.
Thanks for clearing it up, now I get it.....?
So.....When Christians kill in the name of their god it is called Love and when the Isamic do the same it is called Terrorism.

Does the American or any other non Muslim soldier screams "in the name of Jesus!" and holds up the bible on the battlefield, and points to the relevant verses to justify his killings?

Do priests, pastors in the church actually command soldiers of Jesus to go and kill any non Christians (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, Shintos etc.) in the name of the almighty?

Do tell. Evidence would be useful.

I would say there would have to quiet Christian fanatics and even some loud ones within the Armed Forces.
Saving Private Ryan comes to mind, although I doubt it's accuratcy.
When the sniper is in the Bell tower was killing germans while reciting verse of the bible.
Jews signing bombs before they are launched on the innocent Palistinians.
George W Bush may not sceeming but he is holding up the bible and praying before unleashing hell on Iraq.

Your bringing up personal preferences which has very little to do with any attributes of any god.

Christians holding up banners saying God hates this and god hates hates that. I would hate to allow them to have guns in service to their god.

Christians who kill doctor becuase they perform abortions, is right up there with fanatical Islamics.
I am sure there are quiet, reservered Islamics as well.

There is just a few off the top of head, if I searched for more I could find plenty of blood crazed Christians that would rival the Islamics.

Newbie Joined: Feb 28, 2008 Posts: 17

Brian37 wrote:

Norm_uk wrote:

One only needs to compare the nature and characteristics of Allah with the god/s mentioned in the bible see they are different deities.

No they are not in ONE extremely important aspect. BOTH gods have a "My way or the highway(burn in hell if you don't kiss my ass). The are both dictatorial characters.

And why is it that the Koran infuses (blatantly rips off the OT and NT, by mentioning characters such as ADAM AND EVE and Abraham and even Jesus(not as a god, but merely a prophet)?

This what newer religions did in ancient times, they would cherry pick old stories and infuse them into a new religion to draw people away from the older ones.

Look, you can spend googles of ages pointing out the differences but that MISSES the point that newer religions DON'T start in a vacuum. The are a result of a conglomeration of prior motifs and prior cultures.

Competition in religion is no different than competition in big business. Coke vs Pepsi. Coke comes out with a cherry soda and Pepsi looks at it and says, |"I like that idea. Lets come up with our own version, give it a different taste, different color can and different name. Any person claiming that their god is original is like saying that Coke is the first beverage because it's can is red.

I hate this distraction on "details" which misses the important reality that religion can only come from prior motifs that existed before the newer versions.

Ideas like purity and sacrifice and "chosen people" existed in a variety of polytheistic cultures long before the modern monotheism ever took place. The Koran is merely a rip off of the OT just as Christianity is merely a spin off of the Hebrews, otherwise why even mention the OT?

The reason these 3 religions are popular today is not because of a real being, but for the same reason people drink Coke and Pepsi, successful marketing.

Simply put nobody has broken the bramic monopoly on religion; Despite the myriads of Christian and Muslim sects. There isn't a genuinely new religion that blows them out of the water.

To me Jedism would be a cool religion

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:03 pm

powerup wrote:

pr126 wrote:

Quote:

So those Christian missiles that have been killing civilillans in Iraq and elsewhere are choke full of Christian love.
Did Jesus say turn the other cheek but missiles are accepted.
I guess it is a matter of interpretation.
Thanks for clearing it up, now I get it.....?
So.....When Christians kill in the name of their god it is called Love and when the Isamic do the same it is called Terrorism.

Does the American or any other non Muslim soldier screams "in the name of Jesus!" and holds up the bible on the battlefield, and points to the relevant verses to justify his killings?

Do priests, pastors in the church actually command soldiers of Jesus to go and kill any non Christians (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews, Shintos etc.) in the name of the almighty?

Do tell. Evidence would be useful.

I would say there would have to quiet Christian fanatics and even some loud ones within the Armed Forces.
Saving Private Ryan comes to mind, although I doubt it's accuratcy.
When the sniper is in the Bell tower was killing germans while reciting verse of the bible.
Jews signing bombs before they are launched on the innocent Palistinians.
George W Bush may not sceeming but he is holding up the bible and praying before unleashing hell on Iraq.

Your bringing up personal preferences which has very little to do with any attributes of any god.

Christians holding up banners saying God hates this and god hates hates that. I would hate to allow them to have guns in service to their god.

Christians who kill doctor becuase they perform abortions, is right up there with fanatical Islamics.
I am sure there are quiet, reservered Islamics as well.

There is just a few off the top of head, if I searched for more I could find plenty of blood crazed Christians that would rival the Islamics.

There is just no getting through to you, is there.
Citing "Saving private Ryan" is not reality. It is a film, a story.

The facts that Muslims have 10,663 terrorist attacks since 9/11 compared with Christian terrorism at the same time means nothing to you.

Oh, you missed Tim McVeigh! And the thousands of abortion clinics been bombed, hundreds of doctors lynched, how could you!
You missed the crusades, the inquisition, witch hunting, what is the matter with you? Hiroshima, Nagasaki? All this juicy christian atrocities not taken advantage of? All this only happened last week! Get a grip!

Read here about "all religions are the same.

Still, nothing will convince you, no matter what the facts are.

All I see is a moral relativist, offering a cheap tu quoque.

A typical American atheist, who only sees Christian atrocities.
Not Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish, Shinto, Wiccan but just focus on Christians. That's all you know.
Don't worry, I never was a christian, or had any other mind virus.
I am a British atheist, was an atheist all my life, but seeing a larger picture.

Carry on.

Newbie First Class Joined: Dec 21, 2005 Posts: 44

You just gotta love the passionate pommy, don't ya?

Again you are just stating person preferences and personal levels of delusions that the religious mind inflicts on the gullible. They have nothing to do with the attributes of a god, they are just the effects of emotional fanaticism.

I don't list in my mind all the atrocities that religion has imposed on the inhabitants of the Earth. So my fucking apologies mate.

Saving private Ryan? I do not doubt that people exist just like the bloke portrayed in that movie, with all the mumbling of supportive Baalbell verses to justify their murderous spree.

Christians?
Muslims?
Buddhists?
Whatever - Jonestownians?

I agree they are all brain fucked.

But Christians inflicted the Muslim or Arab race first and If I was a Palestinian I would be so pissed off about a bunch of fucks taking over my country I would give my life just to take a couple of the fuckers out, no problems at all.
So have the Muslim taken it too far?
I think they have been pushed way, way too far.
And they had zero, zip nuda to do with 9/11.
I also do not believe the holocaust happened, just to give you something to get cranky about.

I hate the Christian religion more than any other, as I live with it everyday. Christians are very subtle in their ways of killing us, Muslims are direct. I would rather the latter. I would also rather none of the above too.

American Atheist?

Fair Dinkum mate your way off.

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:36 am

Quote:

If Allah is the same god as the Jewish and christian god, why are the Muslims persecuting Christians and Jews (among Buddhist, Hindus, Zoroastrians etc) since 622 CE till the end of time?

In fact, if Muslims (and some other who attempt ecumenicalism) are right, and all Abrahamic religions worship the same god, then they are admitting - indirectly - that this god is seriously flawed.

Why?

Because they are saying that God's first holy book FAILED. His second holy book FAILED. His third holy book succeeded in converting some people but it wasn't good enough to convince everyone, because there are still too many people who believe the FAILED first two holy books, and god could not succeed in writing a third holy book that convinces us BEYOND ALL DOUBT of his FINAL word. (But...wouldn't his final word be the Book of Mormon?)

Newbie Joined: Feb 28, 2008 Posts: 17

powerup wrote:

You just gotta love the passionate pommy, don't ya?

Again you are just stating person preferences and personal levels of delusions that the religious mind inflicts on the gullible. They have nothing to do with the attributes of a god, they are just the effects of emotional fanaticism.

I don't list in my mind all the atrocities that religion has imposed on the inhabitants of the Earth. So my fucking apologies mate.

Saving private Ryan? I do not doubt that people exist just like the bloke portrayed in that movie, with all the mumbling of supportive Baalbell verses to justify their murderous spree.

Christians?
Muslims?
Buddhists?
Whatever - Jonestownians?

I agree they are all brain fucked.

But Christians inflicted the Muslim or Arab race first and If I was a Palestinian I would be so pissed off about a bunch of fucks taking over my country I would give my life just to take a couple of the fuckers out, no problems at all.
So have the Muslim taken it too far?
I think they have been pushed way, way too far.
And they had zero, zip nuda to do with 9/11.
I also do not believe the holocaust happened, just to give you something to get cranky about.

I hate the Christian religion more than any other, as I live with it everyday. Christians are very subtle in their ways of killing us, Muslims are direct. I would rather the latter. I would also rather none of the above too.

American Atheist?

Fair Dinkum mate your way off.

Muslims conquered and subjugated the Byzantines of the Levant and Egypt; Even stormed into Spain and occupied it for 700 years. Those same Muslims in Spain attempted to invade western Europe only to be stopped by Charles Martel's Frankish armies;Conquered Sicily until the Normans invaded. The crusades happened well after these events who struck first is clearly the Muslims.

Subjugated the Balkans for 400 years after the fall of Byzantium; The massacres in Bulgaria and Serbia by ottoman turks inst to be forgotten. The biggest crime was in India with 80 million Hindus butchered in just a decade after being invaded.

The Learned Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 120

pr126 wrote:

The difference is obvious.

Islam still kills, and terrorises the infidel in large numbers. Others have stopped.

True...not the others just cause division and bigotry....but they are not a threat to world peace.

I doubt many Germans worry about being blown up by Jews when they are having coffee in a cafe in Berlin do they?

N.

The Learned Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 120

Brian37 wrote:

Norm_uk wrote:

One only needs to compare the nature and characteristics of Allah with the god/s mentioned in the bible see they are different deities.

No they are not in ONE extremely important aspect. BOTH gods have a "My way or the highway(burn in hell if you don't kiss my ass). The are both dictatorial characters.

And why is it that the Koran infuses (blatantly rips off the OT and NT, by mentioning characters such as ADAM AND EVE and Abraham and even Jesus(not as a god, but merely a prophet)?

This what newer religions did in ancient times, they would cherry pick old stories and infuse them into a new religion to draw people away from the older ones.

Look, you can spend googles of ages pointing out the differences but that MISSES the point that newer religions DON'T start in a vacuum. The are a result of a conglomeration of prior motifs and prior cultures.

Competition in religion is no different than competition in big business. Coke vs Pepsi. Coke comes out with a cherry soda and Pepsi looks at it and says, |"I like that idea. Lets come up with our own version, give it a different taste, different color can and different name. Any person claiming that their god is original is like saying that Coke is the first beverage because it's can is red.

I hate this distraction on "details" which misses the important reality that religion can only come from prior motifs that existed before the newer versions.

Ideas like purity and sacrifice and "chosen people" existed in a variety of polytheistic cultures long before the modern monotheism ever took place. The Koran is merely a rip off of the OT just as Christianity is merely a spin off of the Hebrews, otherwise why even mention the OT?

The reason these 3 religions are popular today is not because of a real being, but for the same reason people drink Coke and Pepsi, successful marketing.

I see you point and agree...but we are discussing the details in this thread.

One of the three religions is actually a tribal, ethnic belief that has been hijacked and twisted beyond measure...Judaism.

I don't agree with any but aside from Jews wanting their own land back and some very nasty politics the world at large is not threatened by them as they have no universal mandate to convert us heathens....

N.

PS: Religion is the only product where the consumer blames themselves for the product failure...amazing really!


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