"no one knows what electricity is." True or False

Just Arrived Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 4

Hi everyone, I was just watching Reginald's critique on "the secret," and he seemed to scoff at this point but then he kind of just glossed over it.

I was wondering if he meant to imply that he actually knew what electricity is... which is a different question, mind you, than how electricity seems to work according to current observations and theories....

Thanks

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:19 am

Electricity isn't an item per se' it's what happens between kinds of matter, based on their properties. So frequently it will be discussed in observing it's ability to do work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/electricity

I think gravity is more of a mystery than electricity.

"No one knows what it is" could be argued that it's a false kind of of question. He should have said.. no one knows what causes electrical current. But obviously, I think he would have really been in trouble.

However.. I will pass this on to my folks here that are physics gurus. Good point you bring up. I should have probably attacked more his deductions rather than that particular claim, which was a strange kind of statement anyway.

Just Arrived Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 4

thanks for the quick response.

I guess the more accurate question would have been something along the lines of: What is the electromagnetic effect?

You wouldn't find the answer to that in a description of its behavior--which is what you generally find in encyclopedia entries.

Thanks for passing the question onto your physics enthusiast friends though, I'd be interested in hearing what they might believe.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:15 am

Quote:

I was wondering if he meant to imply that he actually knew what electricity is...

Electricity, simply put, is free (unbound) electrons, which we commonly use as an energy source.

More info here:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/electricity.html
They apparently think the concept of electricity is so simple it's on a kid's site Wink

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:28 pm

It is probably fair to say that no one "fully" understands the nature of electricity, just as no one fully understands the biology of living things.

It is not fair to say that "no one knows what electricity is".

There is still much to be learned about the behaviour of superconductors, for example, and some strange effects when super high currents flow in certain conductors and plasmas.

For practical purposes, all one needs to know is E=RI. Idea

Just Arrived Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 4

MockingGods wrote:

Quote:

I was wondering if he meant to imply that he actually knew what electricity is...

Electricity, simply put, is free (unbound) electrons, which we commonly use as an energy source.

More info here:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/electricity.html
They apparently think the concept of electricity is so simple it's on a kid's site Wink

but isn't that kind of a shameless tautology?

Just Arrived Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Posts: 4

Olowkow wrote:

It is probably fair to say that no one "fully" understands the nature of electricity, just as no one fully understands the biology of living things.

It is not fair to say that "no one knows what electricity is".

There is still much to be learned about the behaviour of superconductors, for example, and some strange effects when super high currents flow in certain conductors and plasmas.

For practical purposes, all one needs to know is E=RI. Idea

no, there are those with a much fuller understanding of electricity than the established orthodoxy. You just have to be less intellectually dependent in your research to find it... if this is completely over your heads, than I think I understand your answer

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:44 am

Johny wrote:

no, there are those with a much fuller understanding of electricity than the established orthodoxy. You just have to be less intellectually dependent in your research to find it... if this is completely over your heads, than I think I understand your answer

Not sure I follow that. Where does one find "fuller understanding than the established orthodoxy?" As an electronics design engineer I am curious.

I'm referring to the finer points of superconductivity. "Cooper pairs" explain a lot, but there are still some mysteries concerning high temperature SC, quenching and limits on field vs. current etc.

Experiments with very high currents, >100,000 amps vaporize a conductor in ways that have not been explained, namely, apparent "nodes" of high power dissipation occur, rather than just even distribution of voltage drops across the conductor as would be predicted in the subtleties of Faraday's equations. Though, this is probably within the purview of current theory....magnetorestrictive effect or something.

Then, plasmas, strange things going on. Lots of research.

Only quite recently have researchers begun to understand the workings of lightning: streamers, etc. Then there are "sprites" in the upper atmosphere. Still a mystery I think.

My point is just that AC and DC theory as they now exist, are very adequate for producing all the stuff we see being manufactured. So, yes, electricity is "understood".

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:45 am

Johny wrote:

MockingGods wrote:

Quote:

I was wondering if he meant to imply that he actually knew what electricity is...

Electricity, simply put, is free (unbound) electrons, which we commonly use as an energy source.

More info here:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/electricity.html
They apparently think the concept of electricity is so simple it's on a kid's site Wink

but isn't that kind of a shameless tautology?

Please eleborate how...

Electricity "IS" unbound electrons. That was your question. You did not ask a more complicated question about electricity.

It seems even the process by which we unbind the electrons to make an electrical current is well understood. If you have a problem understanding the concept or just want to know more about it, I'd suggest reading the wealth of information available on the subject.

Resident Joined: Aug 31, 2006 Posts: 315

Noether's theorem states that a conservation law is based on a symmetry. The Maxwell's equations have shown that they are symmetrical under a gauge transformation. This particular feature leads to the conservation of an entity that has come to be known historically as electric charge.

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:21 am

Ok - a reasonable dictionary definition of 'electricity':

Quote:

a form of energy resulting from the existence of charged particles (such as electrons or protons), either statically as an accumulation of charge or dynamically as a current.

So what do you feel specifically needs elaboration here?

You do realize that in a sense we don't know the 'ultimate' nature of anything, in the philosophical sense, so 'what is' questions have to stop at some level. Everything is explained in terms of something else, so once we have analysed something to a level that allows us to make very accurate predictions of how it behaves, and how it fits in with the rest of reality, we have a very practical handle on 'what it is'.

Master of Logic Joined: Oct 04, 2003 Posts: 9384

BobSpence1 wrote:

Ok - a reasonable dictionary definition of 'electricity':

Quote:

a form of energy resulting from the existence of charged particles (such as electrons or protons), either statically as an accumulation of charge or dynamically as a current.

So what do you feel specifically needs elaboration here?

You do realize that in a sense we don't know the 'ultimate' nature of anything, in the philosophical sense, so 'what is' questions have to stop at some level. Everything is explained in terms of something else, so once we have analysed something to a level that allows us to make very accurate predictions of how it behaves, and how it fits in with the rest of reality, we have a very practical handle on 'what it is'.

Thor did it and you are just in denial!

Just Arrived Joined: Dec 09, 2008 Posts: 2

BobSpence has given the best description of electricity on this entire thread. Electricity IS NOT the flow of electrons in a wire. Electricity is a static force which emanates from point charges like protons and electrons. Electric charge exists everywhere, except most dielectrics are neutral so we don't see its affects directly. Electromagnetism is understood microscopically to be a force intermediated by the photon. Admittedly, physicists don't have a deeper philosophical meaning for what any of this is, but that's the whole idea to science.


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