need some advice on depression and pills

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:21 am

Kind of a sensitive subject or I would post more info here. In short the doctor here perscribed my wife some zoloft (after having gone in for something different). I don't like the fact they did that and asked for another doctor and a second opinion and got that but with some flak so to speak. I had a big argument with the doctor on why my wife was given a diagnosis and pills in under an hour and why no natural remedies were suggested I.E. diet, exercise, maybe councelling. Keep in mind this is military doctors, so its not about $.

After battling for 45 mins with this military doctor I got nowhere. She booked me an appointment with my wife on base (which my 2nd opinion I requested to go to a civilian doctor) and said for me to bring questions. I asked how long the appointment would be and they said 20 mins. What kind of questions could I possibly ask in 20 mins to get a good answer? I do not think pills are any good, especially when stress is the cause (in my opinion) instead of clinical depression.

Any advice is appreiciated!

Jim

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:19 am

BlasphemousMusic wrote:

Kind of a sensitive subject or I would post more info here. In short the doctor here perscribed my wife some zoloft (after having gone in for something different). I don't like the fact they did that and asked for another doctor and a second opinion and got that but with some flak so to speak. I had a big argument with the doctor on why my wife was given a diagnosis and pills in under an hour and why no natural remedies were suggested I.E. diet, exercise, maybe councelling. Keep in mind this is military doctors, so its not about $.

After battling for 45 mins with this military doctor I got nowhere. She booked me an appointment with my wife on base (which my 2nd opinion I requested to go to a civilian doctor) and said for me to bring questions. I asked how long the appointment would be and they said 20 mins. What kind of questions could I possibly ask in 20 mins to get a good answer? I do not think pills are any good, especially when stress is the cause (in my opinion) instead of clinical depression.

Any advice is appreiciated!

Jim

I'm not a doctor, but if anxiety is the problem, I would advise exercise, better diet, and getting more sleep. After that, I'd try a low dose of a benzodiazapine - Valium to start, as it seems to have a lower dependence liability than the shorter-acting benzos. Most personal and family counseling (especially when it comes to addiction recovery) is nothing more than pseudo-scientific snake oil.

Thinker Joined: Mar 14, 2003 Posts: 454 Location: USA

Being someone who became suicidally depressed at two different points in my life and am currently on medication, I thought I'd offer my thoughts.

Currently I am taking 75mg of Effexor and 200mg of Seroquel. While I'm currently in the processing of tapering off of them I will say that the meds helped tremendously. I remember when I first started taking how I first noticed a difference in my moods. It felt like I finally had some ground to stand on.

That was 5 years ago. Since then I've rebuilt my identity, gained a tremendous amount of self esteem, and in general am a much better, much happier person than I was before.

All that being said, there is a very bad side to this.

SSRI antidepressants and anti-psychotic medications are the most diffcult fucking things to deal with if you're trying to get off of them or you end up missing a dose. Medically it's called "Discontinuation Syndrome" but it's basically similar to withdrawl. I can not sleep without my meds. Seriously. My pharmacy once accidently gave me Serozone instead of Seroquel, and over a period of the next 9 days I got exactly 6 hours of sleep, and that only with the assistance of conventional sleeping pills. It wasn't until the 9th day that I started to wonder if my meds were right. Turns out I was right to wonder.

I'm trying to get off of my meds now because I've learned that Effexor and Seroquel can potientally do serious damage in the long run, and I've got to be very careful about the amount of medicine I reduce or I end up suffering the symptoms pretty badly. It's gonna be a long while, but eventually I'll get off of them.

In conclusion, my advice is this: Meds can help, but try be sure what you're getting yourself into if you should jump into it because you may end up getting into a situation like mine and will require a several month, possible a year long, tapering off of them.

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:34 am

BlasphemousMusic wrote:

the doctor here perscribed my wife zoloft

What's wrong with zoloft?

Quote:

I don't like the fact they did that

But what does your wife want?

Quote:

why my wife was given a diagnosis and pills in under an hour

An hour? A good doctor could do it in 5 minutes and the results would probably be the same.

Quote:

why no natural remedies

What makes you think nature will solve the problem?

Quote:

Any advice is appreiciated!

Let your wife have what is good for her even if you don't like it.

The Learned Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 110

I was on Prozac (an SSRI) for 6 years. I am dysthymic (a constant low-grade melancholy--no peaks and valleys), and have had a couple of major depressive episodes. Since Prozac, I'm fine--still a bit melancholic, but it doesn't affect my life, anymore. Coming off Prozac was a non-issue. Going on Prozac was a non-issue. I had no problems. Most side-effects from SSRIs are temporary and mild. Zoloft is an SSRI.

I don't know what your wife was diagnosed with, but the diagnosis of depression doesn't take any time at all so long as the patient is being honest. The answers to a little quiz (about 5 questions, if I recall) provide the diagnosis. Exercise is obviously helpful in reducing feelings of depression, but it can be hard for depressed people to get themselves to exercise--antidepressants can help get a patient to a point where they can do more to help themselves.

Thinker Joined: Mar 14, 2003 Posts: 454 Location: USA

JFAgnostic wrote:

Coming off Prozac was a non-issue. Going on Prozac was a non-issue. I had no problems. Most side-effects from SSRIs are temporary and mild. Zoloft is an SSRI.

If I may, I'd like to point that the reason you may have not had any withdrawal symptoms from Prozac is because it has a considerably longer half-life (about 2 weeks) than some other SSRI's , like Effexor. Effexor has an exceedingly short half-life. I, and others I've spoken to who take Effexor, being to suffer withdrawal symptoms after missing a single day of dosages, the symptoms ranging from being mild to severe.

I know that if I miss a single dosage, I suffer nausea, dizziness, brain zaps, irritability, diarrhea, and clamminess, all of which can immediately be remedied if I take my dosage. For me it's bearable, but unpleasant. Others don't feel much of anything, some become so incapacitated that they can not bring themselves to leave their home, possibly even there bed.

I'm not sure about the half life of Zoloft, I'd have to look it up. What I do know is that not all SSRIs are created equal. I apologize if I implied in my first post that all SSRIs had really bad side effects, which I could very easily see I did.

My advice is still the same: Do your research, and make sure your jumping into your decision with eyes wide open.

The Learned Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 110

tinker683 wrote:

If I may, I'd like to point that the reason you may have not had any withdrawal symptoms from Prozac is because it has a considerably longer half-life (about 2 weeks) than some other SSRI's , like Effexor. Effexor has an exceedingly short half-life. I, and others I've spoken to who take Effexor, being to suffer withdrawal symptoms after missing a single day of dosages, the symptoms ranging from being mild to severe.

I'm not sure about the half life of Zoloft, I'd have to look it up. What I do know is that not all SSRIs are created equal.
My advice is still the same: Do your research,

Yes, this is all true, and I do believe zoloft has a short half-life (my mother took it--anecdotally, she had no problems with it). I just wanted to make the point that there is NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT concerning the SSRIs. It's just like taking anything else (antibiotics or whatnot). Just follow the label's instructions unless otherwise instructed by a doctor Smile

Concerning doing your research, may I add that an excellent idea--and a way to bypass your doctor for information--is to ask a pharmacist. They know more about the drugs than the doctors. And I mean a real pharmacist, and not the pharmacy technician. If the pharmacist doesn't seem interested in talking about it, then go to another...it's their job, and many of them go to school with the idealistic dream of counseling patients (then their dreams are crushed by the realization that pharmacies are under-staffed, and customers treat them like they are pushing burgers at micky d's). Many pharmacists WANT TO HELP.

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:41 pm

AiiA wrote:

BlasphemousMusic wrote:

the doctor here perscribed my wife zoloft

What's wrong with zoloft?

Quote:

I don't like the fact they did that

But what does your wife want?

Quote:

why my wife was given a diagnosis and pills in under an hour

An hour? A good doctor could do it in 5 minutes and the results would probably be the same.

Quote:

why no natural remedies

What makes you think nature will solve the problem?

Quote:

Any advice is appreiciated!

Let your wife have what is good for her even if you don't like it.

Zoloft is an SSRI/anti depressant with known side effects. My wife wants what I want also, a better decision than just a quick here ya go call me in the morning. When you go in for one thing and get a pill for another, kind makes you wonder. Diet, exercise, and proper amounts of sleep can do a body wonders, especially when you have a lack of all three. If the problem remained after that, then it would be ok to check into other methods. And whats good for my wife should be good for me correct? Doesn't appear to me you're married.

Thanks for the really good advice everyone else, I have my appointment this wednesday 7 feb and hopefully it will go better now that I am there. I am still "anti" antidepressants and will certainly voice my concerns.

Newbie Joined: Oct 31, 2006 Posts: 21

I'll offer one little tip about depression. Maybe you are meant to be feeling it?

The best advice I can give is to go with and experience it as much as you are able, it may seem unbearable but it will pass. Ideally it is telling you something and you'll emerge with a bit more insight. There is also a bit of Zen wisdom you should know that says by staying with an experience you become a bigger vessel able to encompass it more and more easily. You'll add depth to your character if you can delve a little each time into your own self and belief systems.

This is supposed to be a natural process but most people have learnt to avoid unpleasant experiences rather than go into them. So small things grow and grow until they become too large to suppress or ignore. I think this is when many people seek a medical solution.

Note though I'm not a doctor.

The Learned Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 110

Dirkmonger wrote:

Note though I'm not a doctor.

Nor, apparently, do you know what depression is. While your advice may come from a kind place, and while a large amount of the antidepressants prescribed nowadays may be an example of overdrugging people, "depression" as a clinical disorder rather than a mood people pass through is only a natural thing in the way that cancer and syphilis are natural, yet you wouldn't suggest that someone just "go with it as much as you are able" with reference to cancer or syphilis would you? And you wouldn't refer to seeking treatment for cancer and syphilis as simply the modern human having learned to avoid unpleasant things (i.e., you are saying that only the weak seek help with depression--more of the same old deadly stigma).

Confident Learner Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 67

BlasphemousMusic wrote:

AiiA wrote:

BlasphemousMusic wrote:

the doctor here perscribed my wife zoloft

What's wrong with zoloft?

Quote:

I don't like the fact they did that

But what does your wife want?

Quote:

why my wife was given a diagnosis and pills in under an hour

An hour? A good doctor could do it in 5 minutes and the results would probably be the same.

Quote:

why no natural remedies

What makes you think nature will solve the problem?

Quote:

Any advice is appreiciated!

Let your wife have what is good for her even if you don't like it.

Zoloft is an SSRI/anti depressant with known side effects. My wife wants what I want also, a better decision than just a quick here ya go call me in the morning. When you go in for one thing and get a pill for another, kind makes you wonder. Diet, exercise, and proper amounts of sleep can do a body wonders, especially when you have a lack of all three. If the problem remained after that, then it would be ok to check into other methods. And whats good for my wife should be good for me correct? Doesn't appear to me you're married.

Thanks for the really good advice everyone else, I have my appointment this wednesday 7 feb and hopefully it will go better now that I am there. I am still "anti" antidepressants and will certainly voice my concerns.

Man, why are you even going to a doctor if you feel like excercise, diet and sleep will cure the problem. You aren't required to go to a doctor by law are you?

Newbie Joined: Oct 31, 2006 Posts: 21

Quote:

Nor, apparently, do you know what depression is. While your advice may come from a kind place, and while a large amount of the antidepressants prescribed nowadays may be an example of overdrugging people, "depression" as a clinical disorder rather than a mood people pass through is only a natural thing in the way that cancer and syphilis are natural, yet you wouldn't suggest that someone just "go with it as much as you are able" with reference to cancer or syphilis would you? And you wouldn't refer to seeking treatment for cancer and syphilis as simply the modern human having learned to avoid unpleasant things (i.e., you are saying that only the weak seek help with depression--more of the same old deadly stigma).

You think somehow I don't know what depression is, then you say depression is a "Clinical disorder". Maybe you believe this is a useful insight but I'd beg to differ.

Nor is it any help (or a fair analogy) to compare it to cancer or syphilis.

My understanding is that medication for depression is only justified in extreme conditions to give people a chance to take the steps necessary to deal with the depression. It is by no means a cure. I'll stand by what I said before and I also agree strongly with the people who have suggested exercise for it's positive effects.

Please note I'm not referring to types of depression that stem from specific physiological or drug related causes.

The Learned Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 110

Dirkmonger wrote:

You think somehow I don't know what depression is, then you say depression is a "Clinical disorder". Maybe you believe this is a useful insight but I'd beg to differ.

The rest of your post doesn't show me too well how you differ

Dirkmonger wrote:

Nor is it any help (or a fair analogy) to compare it to cancer or syphilis.

They are physiological diseases. Depression is not some ethereal, spiritual thing...it is just as physiological as cancer and syphilis. That's what makes it a fair analogy.

Dirkmonger wrote:

My understanding is that medication for depression is only justified in extreme conditions to give people a chance to take the steps necessary to deal with the depression. It is by no means a cure. I'll stand by what I said before and I also agree strongly with the people who have suggested exercise for it's positive effects.

Medication alone can cure, though it is usually taken alongside counseling. I agree with diet and exercise, since they can provide what the medication can provide. Diet goes a long way toward fighting off some viruses and and bacterial and other infections, too. There is no hard line between "medicine" and "food". Food can be medicine.

Dirkmonger wrote:

Please note I'm not referring to types of depression that stem from specific physiological or drug related causes.

And here's why you don't understand depression!!! Depression is physiological.

Thinker Joined: Mar 14, 2003 Posts: 454 Location: USA

Dirkmonger wrote:

I'll offer one little tip about depression. Maybe you are meant to be feeling it?

Hello Dirk! What exactly do you mean by "meant to be feeling it"?

Dirkmonger wrote:

The best advice I can give is to go with and experience it as much as you are able, it may seem unbearable but it will pass. Ideally it is telling you something and you'll emerge with a bit more insight. There is also a bit of Zen wisdom you should know that says by staying with an experience you become a bigger vessel able to encompass it more and more easily. You'll add depth to your character if you can delve a little each time into your own self and belief systems.

If you are referring to the "bad days" that everyone experiences, people with MDD included, then I would agree with you. For Clinical Depression however this won't work, at least it hasn't with my experience. Telling someone to rough it out when their brain is incapable of fixing itself is hardly a solution. The longer the person is depressed, the harder it is to overcome it because as depression lingers on, the person begins to develop a very bleak, very narrow view of the world. I know this because when I was hospitalized for the second time, when I started taking the meds that I'm on now, I had to search very deep inside myself to understand and accept things that most people believe reflexively like ,'You are a good person and have a right to be happy'. I had to do this because after living with depression for months it was extremely difficult for me to believe that happiness was something I could feel.

Dirkmonger wrote:

This is supposed to be a natural process but most people have learnt to avoid unpleasant experiences rather than go into them. So small things grow and grow until they become too large to suppress or ignore. I think this is when many people seek a medical solution.

I will agree with this, but point out their comes a point to where exploration of your feelings can become too much to bear. Some of the great artists of the past have drawn inspiration of their misery and have made great art out of it (Van Gogh and Emily Dickensen come to mind)

Dirkmonger wrote:

Note though I'm not a doctor.

Nor am I.

Thinker Joined: Mar 14, 2003 Posts: 454 Location: USA

Dirkmonger wrote:

You think somehow I don't know what depression is, then you say depression is a "Clinical disorder". Maybe you believe this is a useful insight but I'd beg to differ.

All depression, from MDD to the bad days we all have, are all clinical. The difference is that 'bad days' pass, where as MDD becomes a very serious clinical problem.

Dirkmonger wrote:

Nor is it any help (or a fair analogy) to compare it to cancer or syphilis.

Semantically speaking, I would agree with you. The exact causes of depression are currently unknown, so it isn't know yet if it's the result of a bacterial or viral infections. If however you define disease as "something that takes away from your quality of life" then it is. Depression also has been shown to decrease your body's immune system.

Dirkmonger wrote:

My understanding is that medication for depression is only justified in extreme conditions to give people a chance to take the steps necessary to deal with the depression. It is by no means a cure. I'll stand by what I said before and I also agree strongly with the people who have suggested exercise for it's positive effects.

Medication, from what I understand, is used when Depression lasts longer than two weeks, as that is usually a sign of MDD. As for your assertion that it isn't a cure, I think that would depend on what you mean by a cure. If by cure you mean taking the meds will make everything nice and shiny and sparkley, then no it isn't. Meds are necessary when dealing with depression that has last for more than two weeks. However meds alone won't help you if you have a very unhealthy psychological outlook. If you continue telling yourself over and over again, "I'm destined to fail. Nothing I do will make this better" then your meds really won't have much of a chance of help.

Diet and exercise is definitely a good thing. I don't think they alone can help cure clinical depression, but they certainly do help.

Dirkmonger wrote:

Please note I'm not referring to types of depression that stem from specific physiological or drug related causes.

In that case, I agree with what you've said.


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