Science told: hands off gay sheep

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:17 am

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2524408,00.html

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:40 am

They can populate the Rams, but leave the humans alone. We are already over populated! Wink

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:49 pm

What about vice versa? Like Edith massey's character in Female Trouble who says, "If they're straight, they're dumb, if they're smart, they're queer."?

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:39 am

An experiment like this is begging for attack. A reasonable person would ask, why not see if you can eliminate heterosexuality? The experimenters should have ready answers given the frightful history of eugenics. They may even have ready answers. But so often the 'news' is just looking for a controversial angle and that's it.

I miss Edith Massey...

Confident Learner Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 67

I am torn on this subject.

While eliminating homosexuality proves that it is some sort of mental condition (not that any is stating that it isn't, but so often I hear homosexuals claim that it is better than that.)

I'd also not want this experiment to go on due to how many homophobic christians will use these hormones to change their child's gender. I believe that many homosexuals become whatever they do because of the torment and misery brought on by their family and peers about their life styles.

Although on the other hand I've never been a big fan of theatre.

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:40 am

Eliminating heterosexuality would be about the same as eliminating the human race itself. I don't think the reverse is comparable for this reason.

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:02 am

Saitou wrote:

Eliminating heterosexuality would be about the same as eliminating the human race itself. I don't think the reverse is comparable for this reason.

I don't mean in general. I mean in the case of doing a study on a certain animal for the sake of the advancement of genetic learning. Without more information, the decision to try to eliminate homosexuality in this case begs to be seen as prejudiced.

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:15 am

kmisho wrote:

Saitou wrote:

Eliminating heterosexuality would be about the same as eliminating the human race itself. I don't think the reverse is comparable for this reason.

I don't mean in general. I mean in the case of doing a study on a certain animal for the sake of the advancement of genetic learning. Without more information, the decision to try to eliminate homosexuality in this case begs to be seen as prejudiced.

Ok. Don't forget however that these are animals that are more valuable if they produce more animals. Homosexuality actually devalues the animals since they won't reproduce. The same doesn't apply to humans.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

Saitou wrote:

Ok. Don't forget however that these are animals that are more valuable if they produce more animals. Homosexuality actually devalues the animals since they won't reproduce. The same doesn't apply to humans.

In modern animal husbandry the sexuality of the animal is irrelevant with artificial insemination as a common practice. Also, there is a growing usage of a primitive form of cloning called twinning as well to get many copies of the same higher quality offspring which can be implanted in other animals of the same species, even of lower quality stock. In other words sexuality and reproduction are becoming separate things. With humans there are also sperm banks as well for donation or withdraw.

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:02 am

sjc wrote:

Saitou wrote:

Ok. Don't forget however that these are animals that are more valuable if they produce more animals. Homosexuality actually devalues the animals since they won't reproduce. The same doesn't apply to humans.

In modern animal husbandry the sexuality of the animal is irrelevant with artificial insemination as a common practice. Also, there is a growing usage of a primitive form of cloning called twinning as well to get many copies of the same higher quality offspring which can be implanted in other animals of the same species, even of lower quality stock. In other words sexuality and reproduction are becoming separate things. With humans there are also sperm banks as well for donation or withdraw.

I also am not interested in the value of animals and I do not know that these researchers were either. Pure research is not (ideally) a practical matter and is done for the sake of knowledge only.

But it's a good point that the value is basically irrelevant. Since beef prices in America (for example) are controlled by controlling stock, a certain small number of homosexuals popping up here and there can hardly to be said to be a factor in the value of beef.

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:54 am

I call bullshit on this entire article actually.

Male AND female farm animals "mount" the same sex all the time, but it dosn't necessarily mean they are gay. It's a dominance thing. I've never seen cows rut, but it makes sense that a good determiner of who's top cow would be to see which cow could climb on the other cows back. I've had my foot humped by a female RABBIT when she thought I was trespassing on her turf in the yard.

When it IS sexual, it's not quite LIKE human sexuality. I've seen a male angora goat try to mate a male sheep. Dose this mean the goat was not only gay, but inter-speciesist?

Animals sometimes get confused and will try to bang the wrong thing, or do a sexual maneuver for non sexual reasons. Homosexual ACTS don't equivocate to GAY animals.

My guess is that these scientists are trying to strengthen the rams propensity towards actual mating.
There is a market for something called a "Ram Crayon" It's basically a big block of soft colored stuff that gets fitted into a harness around the rams chest. Why? So you can walk away and come back the next day to see which ewes, if any, have coloring on there backs. Obviously farmers would be happy if Rams were more reliable, but they aren't. It's actually a bit of a hassle to get a ram to fuck something. If it fucks the WRONG thing then there you go, just more wasted time.

This is probably a case of people who have no clue , jumping to conclusions.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

cheapsuprise wrote:

I call bullshit on this entire article actually.

Male AND female farm animals "mount" the same sex all the time, but it dosn't necessarily mean they are gay. It's a dominance thing. I've never seen cows rut, but it makes sense that a good determiner of who's top cow would be to see which cow could climb on the other cows back. I've had my foot humped by a female RABBIT when she thought I was trespassing on her turf in the yard.

When it IS sexual, it's not quite LIKE human sexuality. I've seen a male angora goat try to mate a male sheep. Dose this mean the goat was not only gay, but inter-speciesist?

Animals sometimes get confused and will try to bang the wrong thing, or do a sexual maneuver for non sexual reasons. Homosexual ACTS don't equivocate to GAY animals.

My guess is that these scientists are trying to strengthen the rams propensity towards actual mating.
There is a market for something called a "Ram Crayon" It's basically a big block of soft colored stuff that gets fitted into a harness around the rams chest. Why? So you can walk away and come back the next day to see which ewes, if any, have coloring on there backs. Obviously farmers would be happy if Rams were more reliable, but they aren't. It's actually a bit of a hassle to get a ram to fuck something. If it fucks the WRONG thing then there you go, just more wasted time.

This is probably a case of people who have no clue , jumping to conclusions.

That is the same excuse some use in humans in that homosexuality is a choice, that they're just confused as well.

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:35 am

sjc wrote:

That is the same excuse some use in humans in that homosexuality is a choice, that they're just confused as well.

It's not the same at all. That's your strawman. I said that human sexuality is *different* from that of animals such as sheep and dogs. Unless you want to assert that dogs can be LEG-SEXUAL I suggest you drop it.

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:14 am

sjc wrote:

Saitou wrote:

Ok. Don't forget however that these are animals that are more valuable if they produce more animals. Homosexuality actually devalues the animals since they won't reproduce. The same doesn't apply to humans.

In modern animal husbandry the sexuality of the animal is irrelevant with artificial insemination as a common practice. Also, there is a growing usage of a primitive form of cloning called twinning as well to get many copies of the same higher quality offspring which can be implanted in other animals of the same species, even of lower quality stock. In other words sexuality and reproduction are becoming separate things. With humans there are also sperm banks as well for donation or withdraw.

Those are good points. I can see that many small farmers might not use such advanced techniques but still point taken.

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:20 am

It did look like you were saying animals can't be gay cheap but I didn't think that was what you meant. I think you were saying that animals may get the urge to mate and mount just about anything. They might not even be aware of the gender of the thing they are trying to "romance".


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