Libertarianism

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

If I'm to make a thread on libertarianism this is where I would put it. It seems to belong here more than anywhere else on these boards since its true believers act no different than a theist does in regards to those who don't hold their beliefs. They preach liberty yet practice the opposite. And they also hold a belief in an imaginary thing.

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:39 am

SJC wrote:

And they also hold a belief in an imaginary thing.

What imaginary thing would that be?

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

MockingGods wrote:

What imaginary thing would that be?

That libertarianism works in the real world. The USA has only had a small simple of that way of thinking and just look at the mess its in now.

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:41 pm

sjc wrote:

MockingGods wrote:

What imaginary thing would that be?

That libertarianism works in the real world. The USA has only had a small simple of that way of thinking and just look at the mess its in now.

It might be more correct in saying they imagine it could work in the real world, and work of course is a relative term; in many senses other economic ideologies work, such as socialism works to a degree. I doubt many of our libertarian friends here would suggest the US even comes close to the libertarian model most of them envision.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

MockingGods wrote:

It might be more correct in saying they imagine it could work in the real world, and work of course is a relative term; in many senses other economic ideologies work, such as socialism works to a degree. I doubt many of our libertarian friends here would suggest the US even comes close to the libertarian model most of them envision.

At least there are examples of socialism in the real world, working or otherwise. You can't say that of libertarianism. I have stated elsewhere that if the USA did follow what they wanted exactly that it would be an anarchist state far worse off than it is now. As it is now America is still being exposed to that way of thinking and it is showing. It is doing almost as much damage as the Christian influence on the nation.

The truly ironic thing is that if they get the least bit of power they all act the opposite of what they assert they believe in, just like a theist. They're all for liberty, as long as its only their's. This is not the only theistic trait they emulate either. There are many other religious aspects to their belief system as well. Like praying to get what you want, they believe that all you have to do to succeed is to do it no matter your level of skill, knowledge, or situation. Its sort of like teaching someone how to swim by taking them out into deep water, tying rocks to their legs and throwing them over. If they drown its their own fault for not having enough faith.

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:04 pm

sjc wrote:

The truly ironic thing is that if they get the least bit of power they all act the opposite of what they assert they believe in, just like a theist.

Well, I do notice a dogmatic trend in many of those who tend to promote libertarian and capitalistic ideologies. You may be marginally correct in noticing a near-religious ferver in their promotion of what they believe in.

Quote:

Its sort of like teaching someone how to swim by taking them out into deep water, tying rocks to their legs and throwing them over. If they drown its their own fault for not having enough faith.

While I’m very individualistic, I too find most of our economic systems cold and uncaring, especially capital based models (aren’t they all?). Is this how you perceive libertarianism?

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:44 pm

sjc wrote:

If I'm to make a thread on libertarianism this is where I would put it.

Thread moved.

There are already two other threads on libertarianism.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

cheapsuprise wrote:

sjc wrote:

If I'm to make a thread on libertarianism this is where I would put it.

Thread moved.

There are already two other threads on libertarianism.

This thread was not primarily about the political aspects of libertarianism, but its religious ones so placing it here is inappropriate.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

MockingGods wrote:

Well, I do notice a dogmatic trend in many of those who tend to promote libertarian and capitalistic ideologies. You may be marginally correct in noticing a near-religious ferver in their promotion of what they believe in.

Its much more than marginal.

Quote:

While I’m very individualistic, I too find most of our economic systems cold and uncaring, especially capital based models (aren’t they all?). Is this how you perceive libertarianism?

Yes. Religion, and libertarianism, take the human factor out of it. A system that comes close to being far more humane is one that will "incorporate" the best parts of several different systems. i.e. Up here in Canada we successfully combined parts of capitalism and socialism. The major problem with being too much of an individual is that you're all alone. Man is for the most part a pack animal. They seem to have forgotten this.

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:22 am

MockingGods wrote:

Well, I do notice a dogmatic trend in many of those who tend to promote libertarian and capitalistic ideologies. You may be marginally correct in noticing a near-religious ferver in their promotion of what they believe in.

Care to give an example of what you're talking about?
I haven't seen a single example of dogmatism in our local libertarians, so this accusation seems rather strange.

This claim here also seems to be not only baseless, but also a shameless ad-hominem, if not an outright insult.
If you wish to resort to such rude tactics the least you could do is back your claim with something.

Quote:

While I’m very individualistic, I too find most of our economic systems cold and uncaring, especially capital based models (aren’t they all?).

I understand the emotional appeal of a 'caring' system, but don't you think emotions shouldn't be a deciding factor of the design of something as important as an economic system?
Socialist systems are far less efficient than capitalist ones, even tough they seem caring, they lower the standard of living of everyone, so they pretty much defeat their own purpose.

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:27 am

sjc wrote:

cheapsuprise wrote:

sjc wrote:

If I'm to make a thread on libertarianism this is where I would put it.

Thread moved.

There are already two other threads on libertarianism.

This thread was not primarily about the political aspects of libertarianism, but its religious ones so placing it here is inappropriate.

I am the judge of what is appropriate around here.

Deal with it.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

Ivan_Ivanov wrote:

I understand the emotional appeal of a 'caring' system, but don't you think emotions shouldn't be a deciding factor of the design of something as important as an economic system?
Socialist systems are far less efficient than capitalist ones, even tough they seem caring, they lower the standard of living of everyone, so they pretty much defeat their own purpose.

Any extreme is not good. That is why the American system is failing now. Also like theists, libertarians believe in absolutes. Either you have absolute liberty, or you don't have any liberty at all. The old, "Give me liberty or give me death..."

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:07 am

sjc wrote:

Any extreme is not good. That is why the American system is failing now. Also like theists, libertarians believe in absolutes. Either you have absolute liberty, or you don't have any liberty at all. The old, "Give me liberty or give me death..."

Your baseless assertions and outright lies aside, how does this have anything to do with the text you quoted?

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

Ivan_Ivanov wrote:

Your baseless assertions and outright lies aside, how does this have anything to do with the text you quoted?

Like it or not that is what many of them believe in. Either they have as much liberty as they want or they are being opposed and forced against their will.

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:20 am

sjc wrote:

That is another example of the religious behavior as well. Denial.

Well, then that's another example of your religous behaviour - hallucinations
Show exatly where have I denied anything in my previous post.


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