Is Worship Totally unnecessary

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:39 am

GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.

I'm a Baptist Preacher. Let's debate about Worship. I'll be using the Psalms a lot on here.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.

I'm a Baptist Preacher. Let's debate about Worship. I'll be using the Psalms a lot on here.

To an all-knowing god worship of any kind is irrelevant. Prayer, in the context of asking for anything, is also saying that one knows better than god's will as well. Prayer is for giving thanks, or praise to god, nothing else. And it is still irrelevant since, as I had said, an all-knowing god wouldn't want nor need such things. Where it asks for such things, in the bible, is only a means of control by clergy, and the like. The same as the modern concept of hell. To the first Christians hell was being without god. That when you died that you were dead. No heaven. They didn't believe in everlasting torment and punishment either. The Church made that up.

BTW, I thought that the Trinity was a Catholic nonsense?

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:35 am

WHY DO THEISTS ALWAYS WRITE THEIR NICKS AND POSTS IN caps!

Worship is a pointless waste of time since the object of your worship is non-existent. Even if it did exist, you would have to demonstrate why you think it worthy of worship?

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

Klarky wrote:

WHY DO THEISTS ALWAYS WRITE THEIR NICKS AND POSTS IN caps!

Worship is a pointless waste of time since the object of your worship is non-existent. Even if it did exist, you would have to demonstrate why you think it worthy of worship?

They assert that god loves them, but this sort of love is no different than what you see in the sick relationship between an abusive spouse/parent and their victim. In other words; "Love me or else..."

As for the CAPs they also believe that if you shout as loud as you can than that makes it more true....

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:54 am

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.

I'm a Baptist Preacher. Let's debate about Worship. I'll be using the Psalms a lot on here.

Humans seem to crave ritual and consistency, as such; worship provides an emotional crutch derived from antiquated theology that seems to fulfill the need. So while we may need consistency to keep us feeling secure, I’m quite confident there are more reasonable ways to obtain it.

Welcome to the new website

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:02 am

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY GHOST.

I'm a Baptist Preacher. Let's debate about Worship. I'll be using the Psalms a lot on here.

sjc wrote:

To an all-knowing god worship of any kind is irrelevant. Prayer, in the context of asking for anything, is also saying that one knows better than god's will as well. Prayer is for giving thanks, or praise to god, nothing else. And it is still irrelevant since, as I had said, an all-knowing god wouldn't want nor need such things. Where it asks for such things, in the bible, is only a means of control by clergy, and the like.
BTW, I thought that the Trinity was a Catholic nonsense?

Note: I only kept the part of your response that was relevant to the subject. Please stick to the topic and question I'm asking.

Now let's deal with the reason why it is necessary to pray according to the Bible. We are not debating if it is made up. We are not debating the truth, or falsehood of the bible at all. We are, here, debating if worship is necessary. I ask this because atheist say it is not.

Hebrews 13:15
By Him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.

Praising God is a sacrifice. To say God needs it is to make God less than Himself. God only wants it. He wants us to praise and worship Him. We are not dealing with if you all agree that God exist or not. We are dealing with the validity of worship here. Therefore we are assuming that if God exist (and my position is that He does) is worship necessary.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:07 am

Klarky wrote:

WHY DO THEISTS ALWAYS WRITE THEIR NICKS AND POSTS IN caps!

Worship is a pointless waste of time since the object of your worship is non-existent. Even if it did exist, you would have to demonstrate why you think it worthy of worship?

I'm not trying to disprove the existence of the object of worship. We are dealing with worship itself. Do you follow? That's the subject. I wrote my nickname in caps because it is important to me. I wrote the subject in caps because it is also important to me.

sjc wrote:

They assert that god loves them, but this sort of love is no different than what you see in the sick relationship between an abusive spouse/parent and their victim. In other words; "Love me or else..."

As for the CAPs they also believe that if you shout as loud as you can than that makes it more true....

That's an assumption of why I put these things in caps. You can't lump all of us together based upon your experience or inexperience. I'm not judging you, so why judge me? I came here to debate points. Not to convert.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:12 am

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

Now let's deal with the reason why it is necessary to pray according to the Bible. We are not debating if it is made up. We are not debating the truth, or falsehood of the bible at all. We are, here, debating if worship is necessary. I ask this because atheist say it is not.

So the entire depth of this debate is "God/the bible says it's necassary to worship", therefore it is? I'm affriad this really won't leave us much to discuss. Perhaps you have something else in mind?

You do understand that worship is ritual designed and used as a control mechanism?

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:07 am

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

[empty]

Note: I removed most of all the original part of your initial arguments that were off topic. Please stay on topic.

As you can see you aren't really arriving to your own debate with a whole lot. Simply asking the question 'is worship totally unnecessary?' is no grounds for a debate. A simple question gets no more than a simple answer.

To a Theist the answer is 'no' because it's what Theists seem to like doing, It's part of the hardship of being a Theist.

To an Atheist the answer is 'yes' as it tends to get the the way of other things like studying, study being the hardship of the Atheist you see.

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

Praising God is a sacrifice.

Now i'm sorry, but who believes who is going to be getting a reward for their effort?

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

Note: I only kept the part of your response that was relevant to the subject. Please stick to the topic and question I'm asking.

I always do.

Quote:

Now let's deal with the reason why it is necessary to pray according to the Bible. We are not debating if it is made up. We are not debating the truth, or falsehood of the bible at all. We are, here, debating if worship is necessary. I ask this because atheist say it is not.

You know what? They are right. One would have to be a complete ego maniac to even want to be worshiped. That is a human failing. A god is suppose to be above all that. That is unless that god is created in one's own image.

Quote:

Hebrews 13:15
By Him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.

Praising God is a sacrifice. To say God needs it is to make God less than Himself. God only wants it. He wants us to praise and worship Him. We are not dealing with if you all agree that God exist or not. We are dealing with the validity of worship here. Therefore we are assuming that if God exist (and my position is that He does) is worship necessary.

Its a big assumption. Another of your assumptions is that I'm an atheist. I'm not. I'm an agnostic. I believe that it is impossible to know god either way.

Why would god need to be worshiped? Like McCoy said; "Why does god need a starship?"

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

I'm not trying to disprove the existence of the object of worship. We are dealing with worship itself. Do you follow?

Worship is a human failing.

Quote:

That's an assumption of why I put these things in caps. You can't lump all of us together based upon your experience or inexperience. I'm not judging you, so why judge me? I came here to debate points. Not to convert.

Maybe because it is a common tactic amongst all apologists. In fact it is so common that it must be written in their instruction manual. Its not as if we haven't had this discussion many times over. You offer nothing new. Your type of "debate" is more appropriate for a theist board where they argue things like how many angels can dance on the tip of a pin, or some such. Where they already fully believe in your god. In other words we don't accept your concepts because we don't accept your concept of god they are based on. To be fully honest, without the fear of god, the bible is nothing more than a work of fiction to us, written by people thousands of years ago who know barely anything about the world around them.

Thinker Joined: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 423

MockingGods wrote:

So the entire depth of this debate is "God/the bible says it's necassary to worship", therefore it is? I'm affriad this really won't leave us much to discuss. Perhaps you have something else in mind?

You do understand that worship is ritual designed and used as a control mechanism?

I think that I had said something similar elsewhere.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:44 pm

I smell a sock puppet.

centerofbaptistworship aka churchofyinepu aka nationofholiness

Bonus: Every time he sets up a profile, he creates a new Yahoo email address to match. Yinepu and Baptist are in Ohio, and we all know that Yinepu and Nation are the same guy b/c he told us so.

So.... WTF dude? What's with the 3 profiles? One to match each personality?

The Learned Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 110

CENTEROFBAPTISTWORSHIP wrote:

We are not debating the truth, or falsehood of the bible at all. We are, here, debating if worship is necessary. I ask this because atheist say it is not.

Being an atheist, I certainly believe that worship is totally unnecessary, given the fact that there is no object of worship. But your question must be, "Is worship necessary according to the Bible??" My first reply would be, "who cares?" But, I am perfectly willing to concede the point: the Bible says christians should pray, so then they should, according to the Bible. It's a moot point though. What's the relevance? Doesn't seem like a debate for a room that pits atheists against christians.

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:58 pm

sjc wrote:

Why would god need to be worshiped? Like McCoy said; "Why does god need a starship?"

Again God does not need anything.

Psalm 50:9-12

v. 9 I will take no bullock out of thy house, [nor] he goats out of thy folds.

v. 10 For every beast of the forest [is] Mine, [and] the cattle upon a thousand hills.

v. 11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field [are] Mine.

v. 12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world [is] Mine, and the fulness thereof.


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