Assuming there exists an innerman or outerman or soul, or spirit etc etc.
ForeverSaved wrote:
Suicide bombers never saw Jesus resurrected. Six centuries later they following a guy (mohammed) in a cave all by himself who wrote that Jesus didn't die on the cross.
That wasn't my point. You said:
ForeverSaved wrote:
God employs man to do His will.
You never specified religion.
ForeverSaved wrote:
Dude, you need evidence.
The irony.
_________________ "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. "
-Sam Harris
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:57 am
You know you have an innerman, for you have an intuition and conscience; you know you have a mind, will and emotion, functions of the outer.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm
The only religion that proves itself is Christianity by the resurrection through group attestation and skeptical scholars agree the eyewitnesses truly believed it.
Partisan Newbie First Class
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Posts: 37
Location: Dominican Republic
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:11 am
ForeverSaved wrote:
You know you have an innerman, for you have an intuition and conscience; you know you have a mind, will and emotion, functions of the outer.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm
Sir, could you explain how intuition and conscience prove I have an 'innerman'?
ForeverSaved wrote:
The only religion that proves itself is Christianity by the resurrection through group attestation and skeptical scholars agree the eyewitnesses truly believed it.
Could you please explain what group attestation is and how it proves the resurrection happened, and by extension christianity? Also simply because the eyewitnesses 'believe' something the resurrection occurred does not mean it did.
I looked at the link; it seems like alot to read through. Also, from the first chapter and other small portions I've read, it appears that it presumes from the start with the assumption that there is a spirit, a soul, an innerman etc. Is there any site you could provide that could provide arguments or evidence for a spirit or soul, or again better yet, could
you
provide any arguments or evidence for the existence of the soul, and/or spirit?
_________________ "Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. "
-Sam Harris
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:18 am
Your conscience and intuition run deeper than mind, will and emotion. Do you deny these faculties? Group attestation is various people together saying the same thing; in this case the eyewitness acounts of Jesus resurrected. Only God can resurrect, so Jesus is God. There is a difference between believing any old thing and believing you saw something physically. The latter must be explained away, otherwise it is true.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 4039
Location: USA
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:33 am
Quote:
Your conscience and intuition run deeper than mind, will and emotion. Do you deny these faculties?
Our morality, intuition, ability to decide and be emotional are all descriptive expressions of the human mind. These patterns exist in our brains when they are functional (not dead) and vary from individual to individual.
Quote:
Group attestation is various people together saying the same thing; in this case the eyewitness acounts of Jesus resurrected.
There are no "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection, it's a story in a book. And even if there were actual "eyewitnesses" I'm not sure I'd believe the accuracy of what they've witnessed anymore then alien abductees.
Quote:
There is a difference between believing any old thing and believing you saw something physically.
There's a huge difference between actually seeing something physically and a story in a book.
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:36 am
The point being some functions run deeper than others. Skeptical scholars don't think it is a story book, but they truly believe the apostles believed they saw Jesus resurrected and Jesus believed He is the Messiah and the Church was built on this basis. The eyewitnesses in various group settings can't be explained away by group hallucination because group hallucinations don't exist, so it is a solid, whereas abductees are individual hallucinations and there is no evidence for aliens, but there is evidence for human existence (e.g. Jesus). People don't document their lives as a story book unto martyrdom. They really believe their auto and biographies.
Cygnus Graduate Thinker
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 549
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:34 am
Quote:
Philisophically, if there is no God, there is no purpose and if there is no purpose, you might as well kill yourself or kill anything you please because it doesn't matter anyway as far as you are concerned.
And yet, none of us have killed ourselves. Also, with god, there is no purpose as you would call it. What is god's purpose? Why does he force himself on us as you say he does? Why does he punish with eternal suffering?
As Nietzsche would say, it is YOU who have no purpose. You believe in an imaginary afterlife and are willing to forsake everything that is good in this life for it. We atheists have a purpose: it is THIS life. THIS life is important because it is the only life we get. So we try not to kill ourselves or others because life is too important to throw away.
_________________ "Buddha says: "Do not flatter thy benefactor!" Let one repeat this saying in a Christian church: it immediately purifies the air of all Christianity."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:37 am
God's purpose is to walk with those who love Him.
The percentage of atheists who kill themselves is the highest of any belief system, because it doesn't matter if you do or if you don't.
He doesn't force Himself, but let's you have the choice if you want to go to Hell or not.
This life is not forsaken, just the god of this world which is Satan. This life of atheists is of no importance because it doesn't matter what you do anyway, there is no consequence.
Hell is an eternal separation from Him, because that is what you want. He is just giving you what you want.
Cygnus Graduate Thinker
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 549
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:45 am
Quote:
God's purpose is to walk with those who love Him.
And eternally punish those who don't. If I behaved like that, then I would probably lead a very poor life.
Quote:
The percentage of atheists who kill themselves is the highest of any belief system, because it doesn't matter if you do or if you don't.
Interesting. Can you give me the source?
Quote:
He doesn't force Himself, but let's you have the choice if you want to go to Hell or not.
Much the same way a robber lets you choose between getting shot and giving him your money?
Quote:
This life is not forsaken, just the god of this world which is Satan. This life of atheists is of no importance because it doesn't matter what you do anyway, there is no consequence.
Yes, it does. In order to have a good life, it matters what you do. Since there is only one life, it matters that you make it the best that you can. And there are consequences, just the ones that happen on earth.
Quote:
Hell is an eternal separation from Him, because that is what you want. He is just giving you what you want.
Then let him destroy my soul; I don't want eternal life as it would become monotonous. A final end is much better after a good life.
_________________ "Buddha says: "Do not flatter thy benefactor!" Let one repeat this saying in a Christian church: it immediately purifies the air of all Christianity."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:49 am
The poor life you want to live is to release today everyone from jails. Search for atheist suicides in google.
God is like a parent who's child is given the choice to love her mother or father.
The reason why atheism is evil is because there are no consequences subsequent to this life on earth, so that you could kill everyone and it is ok; furthermore it is a life of illogical ideas because obviously nothing in nature happens all by itself.
Eternal life is an ability to know God and eternal blessings; when you go to Hell your soul is not annihilated but you are consciously aware forever of your wrong choice to be eternally separated from God. How sad for you.
baddogma Grand Poster
Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 1749
Location: Colorado
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:20 pm
ForeverSaved wrote:
The point being some functions run deeper than others. Skeptical scholars don't think it is a story book, but they truly believe the apostles believed they saw Jesus resurrected and Jesus believed He is the Messiah and the Church was built on this basis. The eyewitnesses in various group settings can't be explained away by group hallucination because group hallucinations don't exist, so it is a solid, whereas abductees are individual hallucinations and there is no evidence for aliens, but there is evidence for human existence (e.g. Jesus). People don't document their lives as a story book unto martyrdom. They really believe their auto and biographies.
You are using the bible to check itself. circular reasoning. YOU LOSE. Now drink your flavoraid and rid us from your ignorance.
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:23 pm
Any proof should check itself and need not be circular reasoning.
MockingGods Philosophical Prodigy
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 4039
Location: USA
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:25 pm
ForeverSaved wrote:
there is no evidence for aliens, but there is evidence for human existence (e.g. Jesus).
There is substantially more anecdotal evidence for extraterrestrial biological intelligence then there is for Jesus, albeit just as poor.
Quote:
The poor life you want to live is to release today everyone from jails. Search for atheist suicides in google.
Proportional to the population, there are more believers in jail then atheists and I'd wager the suicide rate is proportional as well.
Quote:
God is like a parent who's child is given the choice to love her mother or father.
The Christian god is precisely like a parent, which expresses quite glaringly the anthropomorphic nature of the myth.
Quote:
The reason why atheism is evil is because there are no consequences subsequent to this life on earth, so that you could kill everyone and it is ok; furthermore it is a life of illogical ideas because obviously nothing in nature happens all by itself.
You sir are morally bankrupt. It's the mythological god who you believe in that not only kills everyone and it's ok (the Flood myth), but it's fine and dandy to torture people eternally. This belief is depraved, not mine. I wouldn't want to see you harmed for your illogical beliefs, but you're fine with some invisible proxy causing more harm then any human ever possibly could.
Cygnus Graduate Thinker
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 549
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:25 pm
Quote:
The reason why atheism is evil is because there are no consequences subsequent to this life on earth, so that you could kill everyone and it is ok; furthermore it is a life of illogical ideas because obviously nothing in nature happens all by itself.
_________________ "Buddha says: "Do not flatter thy benefactor!" Let one repeat this saying in a Christian church: it immediately purifies the air of all Christianity."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
ForeverSaved Intern
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Posts: 287
Posted:
Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:27 pm
Skeptical scholars are convinced Jesus walked the earth, so your issue is with your own atheist brethren.
View next topic View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
* You can syndicate our news and blog using the file