Gary R. Habermas vs. Reggy Audio

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

Gary R. Habermas vs. Reggy Audio

Norm Geisler and C. S. Lewis said if all you needed was one more argument or evidence to keep you out of hell, God would have given it to you.

The supernatural (firstly, the uncreated Creator) is proven by the fact that nothing in nature can happen all by itself.

It is wrong to assume everything is a go. Everything is as it should be, and your will is free.

The sun god's wings of Egypt are not the same as the Creator's wings of the sun of the universe, Jesus Christ.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:19 pm

ForeverSaved wrote:

The supernatural (firstly, the uncreated Creator) is proven by the fact that nothing in nature can happen all by itself.

Let's just special plead to prove your creator concept. Oh, the irony is rich.

I might also add, literally millions of things happen in nature without the aid of conscious effort. In other words, nature works just fine without supernatural shenanigans.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

You are special pleading no uncreated Creator when nothing in nature happens all by itself. Everything has a cause in nature, so the universe can't cause itself.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

What is the reason, therefore, for not accepting the Lord Jesus as your Savior? As I read the Bible over and over, there is ultimately only one main reason why people do not accept salvation.

The answer is: you don't search God out with all your heart and soul honestly. If you are unwilling to come to God with an honest heart for the truth because you prefer your sin nature, that is the answer.

That's why God created Hell, because He has to put you some place. Obviously, you can't go where we whom are saved are going.

I love how myself, Gary R. Habermas, Norm Geisler, C. S. Lewis, Dave Hunt, Watchman Nee, Jessie-Penn Lewis and many other men and women, are saved for the new city on the new earth with an infinite number of adventures God has planned for us.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

I don't think it is a matter of probabilities for the evidence for the resurrection being the strongest case, but it is the only possibility, because nobody in the history of the human race has ever been able to put forward an alternative explanation that could not easily be shot down. Gary is being diplomatic with respect to saying probability-wise; however, like Spock on Star Trek said, if all known possibilities are impossible, then the seemingly impossible must be true-Jesus was resurrected because He is God!

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Special pleading and appeal to wonder. Logical fallacies do not impress us.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

No appeal to wonder, special pleading or any logical fallacies, at least none that you could identify or try to identify. What I gave you was plain old fashioned logic. Thankyou for your testimony.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:45 pm

Look here for "plain old fashioned logic".

www.candleinthedark.com

Chris Smith's logic subsection is invaluable.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

But what I said you couldn't find fault with, so why don't you give your life to Christ?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:35 pm

I did give my life to Christ. Why didn't he let me keep my faith instead of showing me just how hateful and hypocritical his other servants were?

Again, come to my other home, the sister site www.atheistforums.com where more are willing to play with you. I bore of these games. You should have caught me 5 years ago.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

If in the definition of being in Christ is once-saved-always-saved, then what you gave your life to has to be a false Christ since you are not saved, logically speaking. Why don't you like logic?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 pm

Why don't you learn logic? Judge me not, lest you blaspheme as a Pharisee.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

What's illogical about the Bible saying once-saved-always-saved, so unless you are saved, you never were? You need to enter the conversation honestly with me, if you want to be honest with yourself and others.

Confident Learner Joined: Jun 16, 2008 Posts: 81

Hello ForeverSaved.

Please read this...

The Book of Hebrews Chapter 6, verses 4 to 6. King James version.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared of the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

Here the apostle Paul is speaking about born-again christians who, having accepted Jesus and then rejected him, not being able to accept him again. Please note that he is refering to genuine christians who have genuinely accepted Christ and then genuinely rejected him. Paul does not say, "those who think they have been enlightened..."

This can be proven so because god would not share of his Holy Spirit with those who only think they have accepted him.

Therefore this passage from the Bible disproves the false belief of "once saved, always saved".

Do you agree?

Also, since god has given us the free will to accept him as our savior he must also give us the free will to reject him afterwards. If he didn't that would mean that once we accept Jesus we loose the freedom we had when we were sinners. That would be unjust. Being unjust it cannot be from god.

This is a logical argument. Wouldn't you agree?

I believe that I have just presented two solid arguments (one scriptural, one logical) as to why the philosophy of "once saved, always saved" is both false and un-christian. If that is so and you hold with this belief then perhaps you should re-examine the basic tenets of your faith.

I look forward to your reply.

Thank you,

BornAgainAthiest.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

This is referring to loss of rewards for those who are already born-again. It is not referring to someone who was never born-again to begin with, nor is it referring to loss of eternal life. To be born-again is a choice for forever, it is not a choice for to be saved with the option to get out later. There is only one kind of salvation in the Bible, and that is once-saved-always-saved.

Summary of Heb. 6.1-8: These verses are about pressing on for those in vv.4-8 are still on a course that is correct, except that they have fallen. They don't lose their salvation, and they are not to go back to their first six elementary doctrines of repentance. They still repent, but they don't go back to the foundation since the foundation was already set. They should not do this or they will be become useless (rejected), punished (brought NEAR a curse), and purified by fire (burned, as in 1 Cor. 9.27, by fire).

If you want to study this line by line,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/1Tim4.htm

Let us first understand what the book of Hebrews is talking about. Hebrews speaks about “pressing on”; and our progress of pressing onward is twofold: (1) Christians must grow, and (2) those who teach others must grow too. Christians should know the Lord progressively more in their lives; those who teach others should also teach more advanced truth; that is, they should not only teach on salvation from the beginning to the end of the year, they should teach even deeper truth.

The peak concerning progress spoken in Hebrews is reached in Chapters 5 and 6. Chapter 5 speaks of Melchizedek, about whom the writer says: “Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing” (v.11). You ought to have fully grown, yet you are still pitifully old babies. You should be able to take the solid food of the word of righteousness but, sad to say, you are in need of milk. Then Chapter 6 is addressed to those who teach. In their teaching there should be progress instead of confining it merely to the six elementary doctrines of repentance from dead works, faith toward God, the teaching of baptisms, the laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. So we may plainly perceive that Hebrews 6.1-8 does not deal with the problem of initial salvation but with the problem of progress. The aim of this Epistle to the Hebrews is to point toward progress, not toward salvation. We will be seriously mistaken if we confuse the theme.

Don't underestimate how profusely people misread the Bible.


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