The Facts of Life - 7 Steps to God with an Honest Heart

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

Step 1 Fact: There has to be an uncreated Creator because nothing in nature happens all by itself.

Step 2 Fact: That which is uncreated is eternal, and that which is eternal is all-knowing, outside space and time.

Step 3 Fact: You have free-will since you can choose either way. Experientially we employ our free-choice all day long.

Step 4 Fact: God foreknows your free-choice because He is all-knowing.

Step 5 Fact: You are a sinner; otherwise jails, for example, would not be needed.

Step 6 Fact: If you choose to not to accept Christ, you shall die in your sins and get to spend eternity in hell. Lucky you.

Step 7 Fact: Since you are appointed once to die, you get this one life to decide what you want, either heaven through the ransom paid by Christ and His resurrection or an eternal condemnation in Hell.

It's all about your choice. Good choosing!

Confident Learner Joined: Jul 07, 2008 Posts: 71

God proves how honest he is by aranging for cult leaders to lie, prop up tyrants, inspire war all in Gods name.

HHMMM are you for real or are you just spoofing??

A good spoof will of course say he's for real a better spoof will be more creative.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:05 pm

Proselytizing spam, careful now.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

What Step are you stuck at?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:48 pm

I wish the old IG archives still existed for your sake. You could then see all of the same arguments you are using and how they were refuted so that you could skip steps.

If you subscribe to the "once saved, always saved" doctrine, I'm still saved and have been since I was 8 years old.

Everything in this universe is natural and exists according to the laws of nature and physics. No "creator" who lacks a beginning is needed.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

So you are stuck at Step 1? If so, then name one thing in the universe that is without a cause. If you can't, then accept Step 1 and move to Step 2. Let me know how you do.

Yes, once-saved-always-saved; so, if you are not saved now, that means you never were, logically speaking.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:33 pm

ForeverSaved, believe whatever you want, but know that it gets very annoying dealing with Fundies who each think they are unique for coming to our home on the web to tell us the same thing the last one did.

If my salvation at 8 and later ministry in life doesn't count to you now, then it was meaningless even though I did "save" souls for Jesus. If I did that but was never a True Christian then, so be it, I did a miracle. Razz

Come visit at our other site www.atheistforums.com where there are more people to play with. I bored of these games.

Years ago, the old IG split into DebateHaven and AtheistForums with most of us being at the AF now.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

Why don't you believe in cause and effect in nature? There are trillions of things with causes, but nothing we can prove that is without a cause in nature. I thought you were scientific.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:27 pm

Why don't you come to the other board where more people are? I thought you wanted to save souls.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

Your soul is what matters.

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:35 am

Is that so? Prove to us that the soul exists then. Furthermore, what is it and what does it do?

Sounds to me like this dude has been reading Turek, by the way.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

You have a a mind, will and emotions-these are the functions of your soul. Whereas your spirit has the functions of intuition, communion and conscience.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/SMCFP.htm

Your spirit and soul will never cease to exist because they are made in God's image and God's image is eternally existing. Therefore, you will be resurrected for either heaven or hell. This is easy for God to do, for He is uncreated, all-knowing.

Graduate Thinker Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 666

ForeverSaved wrote:

Step 1 Fact: There has to be an uncreated Creator because nothing in nature happens all by itself.

Isn't that self-contradictory?

ForeverSaved wrote:

Step 5 Fact: You are a sinner; otherwise jails, for example, would not be needed.

Because other people break the law I'm supposedly bad?

BTW, jails are for those who break man's law. If I fail to "remember the Sabbath", I don't go to jail.

Intern Joined: Dec 26, 2005 Posts: 287

How is it contradictory? You are bad because you have sinned. I am just proving to you sin exists. The Sabbath was for the Jews, not for the new dispensation.

Graduate Thinker Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 666

Jails do not prove that sin exists, the prove that the government enforces the government's laws. The point was that breaking a commandment isn't going to send you to jail, but breaking a law will. I am not surprised that you missed the point.

I can covet my neighbor's wife without going to jail. I can fail to love my enemy without going to jail. You only go to jail if you break man's law.

Jails only prove the existence of government. They don't prove the existence of sin.

As for how step one is self contradictory, how did the uncreated creator happen?


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