WE HAVE NOW MOVED TO TALKSHOE.COM. THEY HAVE BETTER SOUND QUALITY THAN BTR. GOLD MEMBERS, BEGINNING THE 14TH, WILL BE ABLE TO DOWNLOAD AN EVEN HIGHER QUALITY SHOW.
ABOUT THIS SITE:Since 1999, The Infidel Guy show has brought you uninterrupted freethought and science-minded guests such as Michio Kaku, Dan Barker, Ken Miller, Michael Shermer, Asia Carrera, Richard Dawkins, Massimo Pigliucci, James Randi and many others. At our site and on our show we take a truthful and investigative look at religious beliefs, political systems, social issues, economic systems, the paranormal, pseudo-science and scientific claims. We feature freethought news, an arcade, forums, chat room and free freethought downloads as well as paid memberships to all IG content.
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UPCOMING SHOW: July 1st, 2009
Jonathan Rowe, from PositiveLiberty.com, will be our guest to discuss the faith of the founding fathers and how both the secular left and religious right propagate myths about their beliefs.
Join us in chat.
Joining us, from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, will be Mikey Weinstein. Weinstein is a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and performed as legal counsel in the Reagan White House. He will be our guest to discuss the threat of Evangelical Christianity in the military. Links of interest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agLrY042-\_I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbJ63Y4R0dA
Mike Jarsulic special hosts this episode featuring Eric Scheibeler. Eric is a former Amway Emerald Distributor and he will be our guest to discuss Amway's business model and how they focus on the "faithful" to obtain distributors.
Ryan Covington is our guest to discuss his new book, "Atheism and Naturalism". Ryan is a former fundamentalist Christian who got involved in the creationism/evolution debate a few years ago. He currently blogs at http://aigbusted.blogspot.com where he critique many of the claims put forth by apologists and creationists.
* Still having some sound quality issues. We are working hard on a better solution.
Dr. Richard Carrier will return to the show to discuss his recent work, including his debate with William Lane Craig, his latest book, Not the Impossible Faith and the Jesus Project.
Check out his work at: http://www.richardcarrier.blogspot.com or the Secular Web
Dr. Eugenie Scott, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education, will be our guest to discuss the new science standards in Texas as well as her new book, Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction. IG has a crush on Genie. ;)
This should be the last week that we are experiencing major sound issues... no god willing.
Chris Hallquist will be our guest to discuss his book, UFOs, Ghosts, and the Rising God. Chris is a contributor at the Secular Web where he has written a critique of William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith. You can check out his work at http://www.uncrediblehallq.net or at the Secular Web.
Forgive the warnings by BlogTalkRadio. I had no idea. I'll need to find a way around those.
Acharya S returns to the show to continue the discussion on her book Christ in Egypt and will also discuss the pagan origins of Easter. http://www.truthbeknown.com.
Acharya S returns to the show to discuss the influence of Egyptian religion on Christianity as well as the common attributes of Jesus and Horus. Information on Acharya's new book "Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection" can be found at http://truthbeknown.com.
We apologize for the sound quality. We plan on bringing her back another day.
Our guest will be John Lewis, a paranormal investigator from Baelfire Paranormal Investigation in Titusville, PA. Mr. Lewis will be discussing the ins-and-outs of paranormal investigation including his work, the tools he uses, the science behind his work and famous cases. Check out his work at http://baelfireparanormal.org.
We at infidelguy.com hope our guest is doing well and recovering from his emergency. Whatever it may have been.
Frank Schaeffer is our guest to discuss the Religious Right and growing up in a fundamentalist Christian family. Frank is the son of Francis Schaeffer, a Calvinist theologian credited with igniting political activism among American Protestants in the late 1970s. Schaeffer is the author of the book, "Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back". You can check out his work at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer
As for rayback, whoop-de-frickin'-doo! More obnoxious bold-text rhetoric, without any attempt to back it up with anything remotely resembling evidence.
Do you really still not understand why no one is hearkening to your message, rayback? I actually feel sorry for the Islamic faith that they have to put up with you as one of their number.
Only place I want to move to is Heaven where the most beautiful ladies in the Galaxy are wating for me.
Iran also has pretty ladies but they are in no way comparable to the heavenly beauties.
You, sir, are an obnoxious, sexist pig. Women are human beings--
people
. They deserve the same amount of respect as any man. How dare you refer to them as sexual objects that exist purely for your own selfish gratification?
You are abominable. You offend me.
pr126 wrote:
Well now, you know how to fast track to heaven for those beauties, don't you?
Read it in your manual: Qur'an 9:111
There is your assured ticket. With money back guarantee. Why wait?
I sincerely doubt he is possessed of the intellectual integrity to follow his beliefs through to their logical conclusion, as you have recommended. However, this is a good thing. As much as I despise this lunatic, I'd rather he continued to troll these forums for eternity than take the lives of innocent people in a self-centred delusional quest for sexual gratification.
Is there also a hell reserved for christians who did some very evil deeds too... like Hitler or Jerry Falwell, (I put them in the same category because of the amount of hatred both men excited in their followers).
So by your definition I am going to the same place after death as a person who murdered 6 mllion Jews simply because of their religious beliefs.
And only because I refuse to be believe in something that there is abslutely no evidence for.
Bit harsh????
You dont burn simply for not believing.
Ala does not throw you in Hell for rejecting Him.
He is not in a popularity contest, or a candidate in an election.
God is a lot more intelligent and reasonable then you can imagine.
No, what you should say is, "God is a lot of imagination".
All you have is a history of myth that you wish were real, otherwise you'd be able to demonstrate your findings in an independent setting.
You this place an independent setting?
Well, that just shows your inability to judge.
If any thinking person were to read the replies to my posts, they will find that
this is a biased forum full of irrational Atheists who are acting like children.
We all know that in a real independent setting, no Atheist would have the guts even
to turn up, for fear of being proven rationally that godless people are no better than monkeys.
That is why Atheists content themselves with the bliss of ignorance in their own silly places.
Further thoughts concerning SaulPaul's latest replies.
(Please note that this message is not specifically addressed to SaulPaul. Until he resolves the issue of the status of the Kalam, Teleological and Moral Arguments, I will have no further dialog with him. I simply write this to show all other forum members reading this thread how far SaulPaul will go in his stubborn denial of the unproven nature of the three Arguments he has presented here. Currently, he has resorted to the cheap deceit of saying that if he believes something to be true, it therefore is. This is NOT Christianity! SaulPaul
must
have his Arguments as TRUE and PROVEN and will go to any lengths to have them this way. )
Dear Reader,
I find it both sad and ironic that matters between SaulPaul and myself should come down to this.
By rights, since he is a Christian, he should be championing the following model of reality.
It is a basic, foundational tenet of Christianity that there is one and only one external reality which all humans have commonly experienced in the same way. If this were not so and each of us experienced our own "private" reality, based upon what each of us believed to be true, the consequences would be totally un-Christian and contrary to the meaning of the Bible.
Christianity is a belief system of unity, not separation. One Heaven, One Hell, One Messiah, One Body of Believers (the Church) united by Jesus' One sacrifice, One message (the Bible) and One God, who's justice, mercy and compassionate love apply
EQUALLY TO ALL
. At no point in any part of Christian doctrine is there anything which suggests, implies or openly states that God's truth depends on the believer. In Christianity, God's truth applies
EQUALLY TO ALL
, regardless of whether a person believes in it or not. This is why those who do not
believe in
the redeeming power of Jesus' sacrifice will be confined to eternal hellfire. Their ultimate fate is not contingent on their belief or unbelief in Hell. If that were so, those who genuinely don't believe in the existence of Hell could never be sent there.
Let us be quite clear on this matter.
In the Gospel of Matthew (Chapter 9: 27 - 29.) when Jesus healed two blind men, he first asks them if they believe that he can heal them. They reply, "Yes" and then Jesus restores their sight, saying, "According to your faith, it shall be done to you."
So what's happening here?
Do we see the faith of these blind men giving Jesus the power to heal them?
No. Of course not. Jesus, being the Son of God, already had the power to heal them. His healing power was not contingent on nor derived from their belief in it. If Jesus' power depended solely on the belief of others how could he have raised Lazarus from the dead? A dead man has no belief in anything.
Likewise, when Jesus walked on the waters of the Sea of Galilee, this miracle was not dependent on the "believing" power of others to make it possible. (See Matthew 14: 22 - 32.) If anything this incident shows the Disciple's
lack
of belief. They screamed out in fear when they saw Jesus walking on the surface of the water, not recognizing him and thinking they were seeing a ghost. Even then, when Peter did try to walk on the water, he could only do so as long as his eyes were fixed on Jesus.
So, the lesson of this miracle is plain to see.
Jesus could walk on the water because he was the Son of God,
not
because his disciples believed that he could do it. As long as all Christian's follow Peter's example and keep their eyes firmly fixed on Jesus, they will be granted God's power. All power comes from God and he gives it to his followers
according
to the strength of their faith. Their faith does
not
generate the power to perform miracles now any more than the faith of the two blind men or Peter gave Jesus the power then.
This example also holds good when it comes to the Christian notion of Truth. All truth rests with God. Christian's do not make something "true" because they believe it to be so. Any christian who follows this line has abandoned what it means to be a proper Christian and replaced it with a kind of existentialism. They have turned Christianity on it's head, usurping God from His throne and putting themselves there in His place. There is a word for this. It is called heresy.
Now for the sad irony.
It is the godless, faithless Atheist (me) who has unfailingly championed the case for one common reality and one common truth that applies
EQUALLY TO ALL
.
SaulPaul should agree, accept and champion this too. As a Christian surely he accepts that God's truth and power and love applies
EQUALLY TO ALL
? Yet what do we see?
In his latest messages SaulPaul continues to maintain that his three Arguments are proper Deductive Arguments that are fully proven to be 100% true. I have given ample evidence that they are not. I have also demonstrated that Christianity does not need these Arguments, has never needed to rest upon them and should stand solely on the evidence of Christ's Resurrection.
SaulPaul has agreed with me that Christianity stands or falls on the historical truth of the resurrection, confirming that his three Arguments are not needed to make Christianity true. Why then can he not bring himself to admit that his three Arguments provide evidence for his belief system, but do not prove it or make it true?
Quite honestly, I just don't know!
So what are his options?
Here's what I see as his viable choices.
1.
SaulPaul accepts that Christianity stands or falls on the evidence for or against the resurrection of Jesus - and nothing else.
This evidence is just that, evidence. Not proof. The eye-witness reports written down in the Bible do not constitute unequivocal proof. If they were, then the many contradictions between the Gospels could not be successfully reconciled with each other. Christians have maintained for two millennia that the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the bona fide eye-witness testimonies of real, historical events. Being observed and written by different people there's bound to be differences in what they saw and how they wrote about it. Similar differences are found in the testimonies of different people these days, when they give statements in a Court of Law.
All of their testimonies are taken into account and a judgement is made, taking the credibility of their statements into account. However, this judgement is not a proof that these testimonies are indisputably true. It is a legally-binding decision by the ruling body of the court, that is all. The verdict indicates which testimonies are accepted as being credible by the court. Credible does not equal true. Credible does not equal proven. Credible means acceptable as evidence, not as proof.
In the same way, the Gospel testimonies may be accepted as credible by those who choose to believe in them. A Christian believing in the truth of the Gospels does not make them true any more than a Jew can make the Torah true by believing in it.
So, SaulPaul can viably say that he believes in the truth of the Gospels and the Resurrection, but he must qualify this statement by also saying that he cannot prove that these things are true.
Nor can he viably claim that the Kalam, Teleological and Moral Arguments are Deductively proven and true.
He can say that these three Arguments provide support for his Christian beliefs, but he cannot say that they prove it to be true.
2.
SaulPaul can persist in his denial.
If he does so I won't be talking to him. Two of His three Arguments have been refuted and his claim that the Bible proves the historicity of the resurrection have been shown as false.
How can I engage in further dialog with him if he persists in his stubborn denial? Unless he is willing to make good on his Introductory message at the start of this thread, how can I debate with him? I am more than willing to admit error on my part and say that I was wrong about something. I've done this before in this forum and I'll probably do it again. Can he do the same and meet me halfway in the spirit of dogma-free, open-minded debate? That's up to him now.
3.
SaulPaul can quit.
He can leave this thread to hang and either vacate this forum permanently or he can start up another thread, elsewhere here. In both cases I won't be talking to him again. For what it's worth, I recommend other members avoid him too. His behavior in this thread indicates that he is not open-minded and willing to admit that he might be wrong, contradicting his Introductory message.
I recall something I read a while back and reckon it's relevant here.
"Certainty destroys dialog."
The man who is certain to the point of rejecting the possibility of error cannot be engaged in proper dialog. If SaulPaul goes down this road he then joins the company of Troy "ForeverSaved" Brooks ( see http://www.Biblocality.com) and our latest bigoted zealot, RayBack.
Archeology: Rabbit Sized Fossil Ancestor of Modern Day Elephant Found
Scientists have found the fossil of a 60-million-year-old creature in Morocco, which is the rabbit sized ancestor of the modern day elephant.
Paleontologist Emmanuel Gheerbrant discovered the rabbit-size proto-elephant’s skull fragments in a basin 60 miles (100 kilometers) east of Casablanca, Morocco.
The creature, called Eritherium azzouzorum, bolsters the case that whole new orders of mammals were already around less than 6 million years after global catastrophe ended the age of reptiles some 65.5 million years ago.
Elephant ancestors now join the likes of rodents and early primates as some of the first known mammals to walk the Earth during the Paleocene era, 65.5 to 55 million years ago (prehistoric time line), according to Gheerbrant.
With Mikey Weinstein's kind permission, I'm going to reprint an example of the kinds of letters and emails the Military Religious Freedom Foundation gets on a daily basis from active duty military personnel and their families. The details have been changed so as to maintain the anonymity of the person who wrote it but it is otherwise reproduced just as it came in. And bear in mind while you read this that MRFF has received more than 10,000 such communications.
Dear Mr. Weinstein and MRFF: I am absolutely worried about writing this to you, as I am terrified of the (military service branch withheld), but feel I have no choice. My husband is an honorable man, who I believe has been persecuted in the United States (military service branch withheld) for his refusal to cave in to the Evangelical agenda. He is a (rank withheld), waiting for his retirement, that he won as a part of his Court Martial proceeding in (time frame withheld). Mikey, I have never seen anything like this. My husband has a (educational degree and discipline withheld), taught at (university name withheld) where we often bucked the system regarding the proselytising and has had an honorable career (in the top 4% of rank withheld) in (military command name withheld) until a new command came in to (military installation name withheld) in (month and year withheld). Up until then he was considered to be an excellent candidate for (rank withheld) but we refused as he only wanted to retire and get away from the bible thumping. This command is evangelical in nature-and they harassed me all the way through my husband's court proceeding.
-Article continues off site, courtesy ScienceBlogs: Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Posted by Shinai_Gene on Monday, June 29, 2009 @ 23:48:23 PDT (101 reads)
(Military | Score: 0)
Religion: Pastor Promotes Bring Your Gun to Church Sunday
LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Ken Pagano, the pastor of the New Bethel Church here, is passionate about gun rights. He shoots regularly at the local firing range, and his sermon two weeks ago was on “God, Guns, Gospel and Geometry.” And on Saturday night, he is inviting his congregation of 150 and others to wear or carry their firearms into the sanctuary to “celebrate our rights as Americans!” as a promotional flier for the “open carry celebration” puts it.
“God and guns were part of the foundation of this country,” Mr. Pagano, 49, said Wednesday in the small brick Assembly of God church, where a large wooden cross hung over the altar and two American flags jutted from side walls. “I don’t see any contradiction in this. Not every Christian denomination is pacifist.”
The bring-your-gun-to-church day, which will include a $1 raffle of a handgun, firearms safety lessons and a picnic, is another sign that the gun culture in the United States is thriving despite, or perhaps because of, President Obama’s election in November.
-Article continues off site, courtesy The New York Times.
Posted by Shinai_Gene on Friday, June 26, 2009 @ 12:58:50 PDT (152 reads)
(Religion | Score: 0)
Law and Justice: Texas Supremes uphold Special Rights for Religion
The Texas state supreme court ruled unanimously on Friday that a town which had altered its zoning to ban two church-sponsored halfway houses in a residential neighborhood was in violation of the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
That act, which was passed in 1999 and endorsed by then-Governor George W. Bush, affords greater legal protection to religious operations than to equivalent secular operations.
Under its provisions, cities have to prove that zoning regulations — like the one passed by the town of Sinton to ban jails and rehabs within 1000 feet of a home, school, or church — further a “compelling” interest, such as protecting public safety, and do not place a “substantial burden” on the free exercise of religion.
Town officials asserted that the zoning regulations placed no restrictions on worship or the practice of religion and were merely intended to protect the safety of residents. This position was upheld at the local and appeals court levels.
Posted by Shinai_Gene on Saturday, June 20, 2009 @ 23:17:33 PDT (217 reads)
(Law and Justice | Score: 0)
Religion: Move Over AA, Now there’s Recovering Religionists
Move over Alcoholics Anonymous. Now there’s a recovery group for people who want to escape their religious addiction and live a life free of gods, demons, sin, and the constant threat of an eternity in hell fires.
Founded in March of this year by Darrel Ray, a psychologist and author of The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture, the group, which is called Recovering Religionists (RR), now has chapters in almost a dozen places, including Raleigh, North Carolina; Conroe, Texas; Kansas City, Kansas; Atlanta, Georgia; Joplin, Missouri; and New York City.
Ray may be onto something big. A 2007 PEW study found that 16% of Americans no longer belong to any specific religion, making them one of the country’s largest minorities. And the number is still growing, in fact, faster than any religious organization. Which should make it any easier for people to admit that they’re non-believers. It doesn’t. The stigma is too great.
Ray, who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian church and spent time with the Quakers and the Presbyterians, told the Kansas City Star, “It is almost easier to come out of the closet as gay than as an atheist, especially in the Midwest. My hope for RR is that when people are ready to leave religion they have a group for support.”
-Article continues off site, courtesy Beyond Chron.
Posted by Shinai_Gene on Friday, June 19, 2009 @ 00:40:22 PDT (299 reads)
(Religion | Score: 0)
